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The efficiency of water usage is good, but the population growth that can be managed under that can only be so much. Unless people have to get used to skipping showers/bathing?
People in low-income areas tend to do pretty well. Compton averages about 65 gallons of water per capita per day, whereas Beverly Hills by comparison is over 200. Water usage is directly tied to income levels, which is why Arizona does so “poorly” on it, because water is cheap here and we don’t have a horrid job market.
We are a net producer of electricity yet our electric bills are higher than our water... why is that?
Making water more expensive like they do in New Mexico can bring the water usage down.
Switching higher efficiency appliances do most of the work for municipalities. Ag and industry (lots of water needed for mining) are a whole other story.
The decline of the energy sector is not a factor in any sort of exodus. The energy sector, as it is, is in better shape in 2017 than it was in 2015 or 2016 when oil prices started coming down, not just in Houston but worldwide. That tends to happen when the value of the commodity doubles from 2016 lows and when other segments of the sector begin to expand more.
Houston actually has larger job growth than the entire state of Arizona (nearly 20,000 more jobs than AZ):
Also, Harvey isn't really expected to taper Houston's population growth by much, certainly not enough for Phoenix-proper to be in any position to pass it. Perhaps if Houston gets hit by a Katrina type of storm that brings in wind damage, storm surge, and rainfall as a Category 4 or 5, then there would be some exodus temporarily. However, that is not the case. Harvey struck 170 miles southwest of Houston and its damage on Houston was rainfall. Roofs and powerlines weren't being knocked down or torn apart and ocean water wasn't inundating the city given that the hurricane didn't make a direct hit on the city. Houston got rainfall, which was bad but repairable. Harvey is the type of storm that you can move on from, Maria, which leveled Puerto Rico as it made a direct hit and gave the full brunt of its force, is the type of hurricane that sets you back for years to come. Houston doesn't have to worry about that.
I don't think Harvey will significantly impact Houston's long term population trends; my point was that if it becomes a common occurrence (similarly powerful storms occurring on a regular/yearly basis) than we will likely see less people migrating to Houston and a resultingly slower population growth for the city. Whether or not those migrants will opt for Phoenix or wherever remains to be seen. I agree there won't be a mass exodus unless the city experiences a Katrina-like storm.
I don't think Harvey will significantly impact Houston's long term population trends; my point was that if it becomes a common occurrence (similarly powerful storms occurring on a regular/yearly basis) than we will likely see less people migrating to Houston and a resultingly slower population growth for the city. Whether or not those migrants will opt for Phoenix or wherever remains to be seen. I agree there won't be a mass exodus unless the city experiences a Katrina-like storm.
they'll probably look at Dallas or Austin first before Phoenix. Though we do get our fair share of Texans here, given that we are halfway between two mega states.
We don't see as many Houstonians (?) as Dallas people though I feel.
Harris County isn't exclusively Houston: the city corresponds to only a bit more than half the county's population.
And do you think that Phoenix can handle the massive population influxes it would take to catch up with Houston without any impact to the water situation?
I'm willing to guess that Houston will be almost fully destroyed by a hurricane long before PHX loses water.
I don't know what you mean by fully destroy.
There wasn't much actual wind damage from Harvey in the Houston area.
Looks like Harvey was the wettest rain event anywhere in the US.
Houston has its drainage problems that can be improved, however that much water anywhere is going to cause problems.
Hurricanes historically have not caused as much damage to Houston as you guys make it out to be. Last year on tax day and the year before on labor day Houston has regular rain events that caused just as much problems as hurricanes. What I am trying to say is Houston has more of a drainage problem than a hurricane one.
Why would the residents of Phoenix want their city that feels like a city of 500,000 to have 2,500,000? It literally just breaks down the whole concept of what a big city is. Will it really feel all that gratifying to say you live in the 4th biggest city in the US when it doesn't even feel like it should be in the top 10?
I don't think Harvey will significantly impact Houston's long term population trends; my point was that if it becomes a common occurrence (similarly powerful storms occurring on a regular/yearly basis) than we will likely see less people migrating to Houston and a resultingly slower population growth for the city. Whether or not those migrants will opt for Phoenix or wherever remains to be seen. I agree there won't be a mass exodus unless the city experiences a Katrina-like storm.
If you force yourself to pick between Houston and Phoenix, your just looking at a hurricane-prone, sinking city on one hand, and an increasingly hot and water-starved city on the other. I think they will both start to lose population in the future. Phoenix residents will head for Las Vegas and Houston residents will head to Dallas.
an increasingly hot and water-starved city on the other. I think they will both start to lose population in the future. Phoenix residents will head for Las Vegas and Houston residents will head to Dallas.
Las Vegas is somehow immune to water scarcity? Las Vegas is the fastest warming city in the nation. I think LV will have water issues before Phoenix does. LV is no better off than PHX.
I know climate change is a thing but anyone that thinks the U.S will let such economic drivers as Phoenix and Houston get "starved" to death water wise with the Great Lakes being the greatest source of freshwater or one of in the world is tripping.
Southwest water issues are 100% hogwash, If Phoenix hits 15 million and starts having severe water problems you can bet a 100 billion pipeline from Michigan is being built. Before everyone abandons the economy that was good enough to triple Phoenix's current size.
Natural disasters have almost zero bearing on human migration. It is proven again and again Humans will live in mudslide/volcanic/typhoon/tsunami/flooding filled cities of over 30,000,000 (Tokyo and Jakarta) before they move to a statistically much safer region within their countries from natural disasters. If natural disasters start affecting the economy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp2l6nFIsZA
Now their are mini-cases were Human migration was/is affected by disaster but if you look at the picture, Galveston didn't fail because of National disasters, it in fact "Galveston" was moved 20 miles inland and 50 miles north to Houston which even in those days was well in the same sphere of influence as Galveston, in reality the population of Galveston drastically reduced but the metro/region of Galveston only gained millions...
So even if water starts becoming an issue, I can only say the company that get's the contract to build the water pipeline is cashing in a fat check...
I'm saying this as a Houstonian. BTW do I think Houston will get passed by Phoenix? No. Houston is younger city and seeing more or similar migration to it's metro area. Phoenix will also have increasing competition from it's large suburbs- Tempe/Scottsdale/Mesa start urbanizing similar to Dallas. Houston economically dominates it's suburbs more than most metro areas with the largest areas outside of the city for businesses being The Woodlands and Sugar Land and the city itself having 10+ business districts. As urbanity increases in Houston while the core will increase population many of the gentrifying and modernizing suburban districts are actually within city limits. While Phoenix has some areas like this the fact that Scottsdale/Tempe alone are outside city limits is a big detractor for future growth within the city of Phoenix.
Last edited by NigerianNightmare; 11-05-2019 at 10:45 PM..
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