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I have relatives in the southwestern part of Virginia and we would frequent West Virginia's state parks and cities. I have been visiting WV for about 15 years.
WV has a different feel from VA. Charleston, WV and the southern and central parts of WV are not northeastern. However, it's not southern like Alabama and Georgia. It's more like a southern/midwestern mix with an Appalachian twist. The cities look different from southern cities too. They resemble cities in the Rust Belt. Also, many West Virginians refer to cold drinks as "pop", a midwestern term. But the southern term "y'all" is heard alot too.
Northern WV (Wheeling, Weirton, Morgantown) has close ties to OH and PA and has a more northern feel to them. They even look at you weird when you try to order sweet tea.
True.
The term "pop" comes from Faygo and spread throughout the mainland as they are from Detroit. The people in the Pacific Northwest say "pop" too though. People from St. Louis say "soda."
Sorry, but I always have to involve myself in the never-ending debate on Pittsburgh's classification, because I'm disappointed so few consider Pittsburgh the Northeast. Let me start off by saying that I don't think there is a solution to whether Pittsburgh is Eastern, Appalachian or Midwestern. But, I'll offer a few observations anyway.
(1) Everyone who calls Pittsburgh Midwestern never seems to have much of a reason for labeling it as such.
(2) To say that Pittsburgh is different from Philadelphia, DC, New York or any other city, and therefore not Northeastern, is absurd. How many people would honestly say DC or Philly is like Boston, Northern New Jersey like Baltimore. Every metro has its own distinctive style and Pittsburgh is no different. I actually find Philadelphia to be a lot like Pittsburgh in many different neighborhoods.
(3) Most major cities are liberal, not just the ones on Bos-Wash corridor. Pittsburgh's social conservatism--I'm starting to wonder if this isn't a myth considering our lack of blue-collar workers. If we still have a large social conservatism, then I'm guessing this is most likely influenced Appalachia not the Midwest as West Virginia surrounds Pittsburgh (take a trip to southern reaches of the Pittsburgh metro and you'll see what I mean).
(4) "Pittsburgh is too German to be Eastern." ~ Pittsburgh has a higher percentage of Irish than Boston (as well as 50% Roman Catholic), and Italians are a close third in Pittsburgh.
(5) "Pittsburgh isn't cosmopolitan enough to be Northeastern." ~ Well let's compare: Pittsburgh is very white, you're right: 67% White; 27% Black; 3% Asian. But, if we look at the "true" Eastern cities we don't find much more diversity: Baltimore: 64% Black; 32% White; 1.5% Asian. Philadelphia: 43% Black; 43% White; 4% Asian. Boston: 50% White; 25% Black; 8% Asian. I guess I just don't see that much of a difference.
(6) No doubt Pittsburgh has some architectural influence from Appalachia.
(7) Pittsburgh is composed of mostly brick housing, with a disordered street layout, density and with many narrow one way streets. Pittsburgh was ranked as more dangerous to drive in by a recent All State study I believe. Pittsburgh is one of the most highly educated cities in the country...aren't these things supposed to be like the Northeast?
(8) Pittsburgh's main employers are Health Care and education...not like Appalachia.
(9) Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania--a Northeastern city; above the Mason-Dixon Line (for whatever its worth now) and more importantly, I've never, ever, heard a Pittsburgher refer to themselves as either Midwestern or Appalachian. I've lived here all my life and people in Pittsburgh don't think of themselves as being from the East Coast, but we do think of ourselves as Easterners.
(10) "Pittsburgh isn't close enough to the East, the shoreline or the other Northeastern cities." To this I say: Pittsburgh is further east than Miami. Pittsburgh is closer Baltimore, Washington DC, and Philadelphia by driving distance and as the crow flies than Boston to all these cities: PGH to BTM = 248 mi; BOS to BTM = 407 mi.; PGH to DC = 250 mi.; BOS to DC = 440 mi.; PGH to PHI = 306 mi.; BOS to PHI = 309 mi. In fact, the distance from DC to New York is about the same distance as it is from DC to Pittsburgh.
(11) You can quote Chicago all you want and say, "Chicago has row houses too," but that city is the exception in the Midwest and not the rule. San Francisco has row houses, but no one says that San Francisco epitomizes the West--it is simply an exception. The Midwest is not typified by row houses and the Northeast is. I'm actually starting to believe that the one thing that truly does unite the Northeast cities is the density and large numbers of row houses (keeping in mind geographic proximity).
(12) Pittsburgh Has Rows, thousands of Rows:
By ainulindale (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/ainulindale - broken link), shot with C960Z,D460Z (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=C960Z%2CD460Z&make=OLYMPUS+OPT ICAL+CO.%2CLTD - broken link) at 2008-03-10
Sorry, but I always have to involve myself in the never-ending debate on Pittsburgh's classification, because I'm disappointed so few consider Pittsburgh the Northeast. Let me start off by saying that I don't think there is a solution to whether Pittsburgh is Eastern, Appalachian or Midwestern. But, I'll offer a few observations anyway.
(1) Everyone who calls Pittsburgh Midwestern never seems to have much of a reason for labeling it as such.
(2) To say that Pittsburgh is different from Philadelphia, DC, New York or any other city, and therefore not Northeastern, is absurd. How many people would honestly say DC or Philly is like Boston, Northern New Jersey like Baltimore. Every metro has its own distinctive style and Pittsburgh is no different. I actually find Philadelphia to be a lot like Pittsburgh in many different neighborhoods.
(3) Most major cities are liberal, not just the ones on Bos-Wash corridor. Pittsburgh's social conservatism--I'm starting to wonder if this isn't a myth considering our lack of blue-collar workers. If we still have a large social conservatism, then I'm guessing this is most likely influenced Appalachia not the Midwest as West Virginia surrounds Pittsburgh (take a trip to southern reaches of the Pittsburgh metro and you'll see what I mean).
(4) "Pittsburgh is too German to be Eastern." ~ Pittsburgh has a higher percentage of Irish than Boston (as well as 50% Roman Catholic), and Italians are a close third in Pittsburgh.
(5) "Pittsburgh isn't cosmopolitan enough to be Northeastern." ~ Well let's compare: Pittsburgh is very white, you're right: 67% White; 27% Black; 3% Asian. But, if we look at the "true" Eastern cities we don't find much more diversity: Baltimore: 64% Black; 32% White; 1.5% Asian. Philadelphia: 43% Black; 43% White; 4% Asian. Boston: 50% White; 25% Black; 8% Asian. I guess I just don't see that much of a difference.
(6) No doubt Pittsburgh has some architectural influence from Appalachia.
(7) Pittsburgh is composed of mostly brick housing, with a disordered street layout, density and with many narrow one way streets. Pittsburgh was ranked as more dangerous to drive in by a recent All State study I believe. Pittsburgh is one of the most highly educated cities in the country...aren't these things supposed to be like the Northeast?
(8) Pittsburgh's main employers are Health Care and education...not like Appalachia.
(9) Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania--a Northeastern city; above the Mason-Dixon Line (for whatever its worth now) and more importantly, I've never, ever, heard a Pittsburgher refer to themselves as either Midwestern or Appalachian. I've lived here all my life and people in Pittsburgh don't think of themselves as being from the East Coast, but we do think of ourselves as Easterners.
(10) "Pittsburgh isn't close enough to the East, the shoreline or the other Northeastern cities." To this I say: Pittsburgh is further east than Miami. Pittsburgh is closer Baltimore, Washington DC, and Philadelphia by driving distance and as the crow flies than Boston to all these cities: PGH to BTM = 248 mi; BOS to BTM = 407 mi.; PGH to DC = 250 mi.; BOS to DC = 440 mi.; PGH to PHI = 306 mi.; BOS to PHI = 309 mi. In fact, the distance from DC to New York is about the same distance as it is from DC to Pittsburgh.
(11) You can quote Chicago all you want and say, "Chicago has row houses too," but that city is the exception in the Midwest and not the rule. San Francisco has row houses, but no one says that San Francisco epitomizes the West--it is simply an exception. The Midwest is not typified by row houses and the Northeast is. I'm actually starting to believe that the one thing that truly does unite the Northeast cities is the density and large numbers of row houses (keeping in mind geographic proximity).
(12) Pittsburgh Has Rows, thousands of Rows:
By ainulindale (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/ainulindale - broken link), shot with C960Z,D460Z (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=C960Z%2CD460Z&make=OLYMPUS+OPT ICAL+CO.%2CLTD - broken link) at 2008-03-10
i thought we settled this. pgh is east coast-appalachia . most definitely.
DC is one of the anchors of the NE corridor. We can argue all day long about historical culture but what I mentioned is a fact. DC is not NE like Boston or NYC but it boast many of the same characteristics of the NE.
Umm, I was talking about plain old geography. Baltimore is northeast of DC. And it's because of that (and that reason alone) that I thought it odd that DC has one more vote than Baltimore. Personally, I'd rather not argue all day long about the cultural aspects of different eastern cities.
people can be wrong (holding back even more sarcasm ). i put this one in the category of those who don't think cincinnati is in the rust belt, and that the crime "isn't that bad".
people can be wrong (holding back even more sarcasm ). i put this one in the category of those who don't think cincinnati is in the rust belt, and that the crime "isn't that bad".
Hence I put Seattle on the poll, and it got three votes! Though, probably from people just being funny.
Yeah, I do think we did, but if you look at the poll, poor Pittsburgh is getting its butt kicked...almost no one considers it Eastern.
I consider it eastern and I'm from there. Even in far western Beaver County, which has a border with Ohio, people think they are Pennsylvanians, hence, easterners. However, I disagree with the rowhouse issue. Many major cities everywhere have rowhouses. We have some in Denver. I don't think rowhouses mean a city is eastern or anything else. It was just the way houses were built at a particular point in time.
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. most definitely.
