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The ad is against race being used as a criteria to hire somebody. It is a labor argument. It is a provocative ad and it probably did appeal to some white racists but those white racists were hypocrites. It is possible that Helms was a racist but I don't think you make that case based solely on that ad.
You are basically saying a person who supports color blind hiring practices is a racist.
What is funny to me is you think that ad is racist, but you didn't have any problem with Al Gore being selected as VP or the nominee of the party in 2000. His father filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1964. If the GOP had nominated the son of a white segregationist, the Democrats and media would have said it was a dog whistle to white racists in the south.
Robert Byrd was a liberal Democratic Senator until the 2000s. He also filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and was in the KKK. The CLintons and Obama praised and eulogized him when he died. Yet you trying to make GOP out as racist or making racist appeals to southerners because of Helm's ad against racial quotas.
So you talk about Helms and conveniently don't talk about Byrd. You don't talk about Bill Clinton giving his segregationist Democratic ex senator mentor William Fullbright the presidential medal of freedom and calling him a great visionary.
You don't talk about the very liberal Democratic senator of SC, Fritz Hollings, raising the Confederate flag on the SC state house back in the 1960s when he was governor.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 07-08-2018 at 03:06 PM..
I was 10 years old in 2000 so I couldn't vote. I don't personally care for Al Gore very much, and probably would have voted for Nader had I been able to vote.
I don't think that the Democratic Party is immune from Racism, or that it is without its own problems, the only point I have been trying to make is that Southern support for Republicans has its origins in the racial politics of the Civil Rights Era.
Colorblindness in hiring practices, college admissions, etc. could only be a reality if the history of America or its current society was itself colorblind, which it is not. People of African descent in this county were robbed of their identities and then made Second Class Citizens for the better part of our history but now some White people want to whine because of attempts to level the playing field in a very minuscule way under the premise of some notion of "colorblindness" which their ancestors never practiced.
I was 10 years old in 2000 so I couldn't vote. I don't personally care for Al Gore very much, and probably would have voted for Nader had I been able to vote.
I don't think that the Democratic Party is immune from Racism, or that it is without its own problems, the only point I have been trying to make is that Southern support for Republicans has its origins in the racial politics of the Civil Rights Era.
Colorblindness in hiring practices, college admissions, etc. could only be a reality if the history of America or its current society was itself colorblind, which it is not. People of African descent in this county were robbed of their identities and then made Second Class Citizens for the better part of our history but now some White people want to whine because of attempts to level the playing field in a very minuscule way under the premise of some notion of "colorblindness" which their ancestors never practiced.
You haven't proven that southern support for Republicans has its origin in racial politics. It makes no sense white racists would have all jumped to the GOP which had pushed all the civil rights legislation, simply because LBJ signed the Civil RIghts Act. LBJ has originally opposed civil rights legislation. Democrats filibustered the 1964 legislation. You act like white racists did not know this. Your premise is that white racists don't have any other issue that they cared about, such has fiscal liberal policies , that would keep them voting Democrat.
Moreover, Nixon had a civil rights record. You act like white racists did not know this. If he was the champion of white racists, he would have won the deep south states that George Wallace, the Dixiecrat and former Democrat, won.
This would be like pro-choice people switching to the GOP after abortion became legal if a formerly pro choice Democratic president worked with Republicans to make it happen because popular support for abortion had dwindled. It doesn't seem plausible. Political parties give up issues all the time when they present a problem getting elected.
There probably are some white racists that switched but it isn't b/c the GOP adopted a racist platform. It was b/c white racist policy was taken off the table and that was the only thing keeping them in Democrat party.
You are also missing the fact that a lot of the big issues today like gun control and abortion didn't emerge until the 1960s or so. If the Democratic party back in the day had similar views on guns and abortion as they do now, the south could have actually shifted to GOP sooner which means segregation would have ended sooner.
I would argue that the pro-life and gun rights positions of the GOP are not consistent with white racism.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 07-08-2018 at 03:28 PM..
I think that there were more issues other than Race driving the political shift in the South, but without Civil Rights being an issue, the shift likely wouldn't have occurred as quickly as it did.
While Nixon did formally support Civil Rights Legislation, there is much evidence to support that his personal views of Blacks and other minorities were prejudiced.
Also, those sections of the Deep South that supported Wallace in 1968 overwhelmingly voted for Nixon in his re-election campaign against McGovern in 1972.
McGovern only won 1 state. Kind of hard to say that election was a referendum on racism. He only got 37 percent of the national popular vote. That is terrible.
If Nixon used a southern strategy, why didn't it hurt him outside of the south.
You also fail to mention that Nixon desegregated the schools in his first term....not exactly the platform of white racists. So the fact all of the south went for Nixon in 1972 is actually proof that white racism wasn't driving southern politics anymore.
LBJ was a huge racist. You can google his racist quotes. I don't want to link them.
I need to roll out. I enjoyed talking to you about this. This is one of my favorite topics. Sometimes I feel like I should have majored in political science.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 07-08-2018 at 03:53 PM..
And I will be the first to say "Congrats on being right about me not wanting to read through your many, many posts about Texas." Once was more than enough.
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That's what I thought. Next time, you accuse someone of something, please follow through.
Maybe. But he's right. South Carolina really is cool. It's super hip in fact.
who decides what is cool and 'superhip'? People with your politics?
My point was not that everybody thinks SC is cool.
You've said you haven't even been to Charleston so your opinion about SC doesn't seem based on any experiences you had in the state. Charleston is the oldest southern city and a significant metro within SC. Talking about SC without visiting Charleston is analogous to talking about Colorado without visiting Denver in my view.
I'm surprised a cool person in Denver would be thinking about the south and talking about the south on an forum like this. If I lived in Denver, I wouldn't be thinking about the south on a regular basis.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 07-08-2018 at 05:47 PM..
He doesn't live in SC. He still lives in Denver. He changed his location to Clemson after I said I think SC has a cool reputation with a lot of people in this country. He also accused me of having 'southern pride' and then soon after he added that slogan to his status.
He clearly has a problem with the south that appears to be based in his political views.
I think it’s hypocritical for you to think I hate the south because I’m liberal. That’s like me saying every person in the south is racist because they’re from the south. This is magnified because I’m actually not liberal. Let’s not pre judge or paint with a broad brush my friend
who decides what is cool and 'superhip'? People with your politics?
My point was not that everybody thinks SC is cool.
You've said you haven't even been to Charleston so your opinion about SC doesn't seem based on any experiences you had in the state. Charleston is the oldest southern city and a significant metro within SC. Talking about SC without visiting Charleston is analogous to talking about Colorado without visiting Denver in my view.
I'm surprised a cool person in Denver would be thinking about the south and talking about the south on an forum like this. If I lived in Denver, I wouldn't be thinking about the south on a regular basis.
?? I live in Clemson now. I was wrong. It’s hip. Really hip. Can we be friends now?
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So the fact all of the south went for Nixon in 1972 is actually proof that white racism wasn't driving southern politics anymore.
