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Aren’t many just moving to Kentwood, Wyoming and even spreading out to other suburbs like Grandville, East GR, Northview and Comstock Park?
Most definitely its alot moving to those suburbs. Especially because of the schools. But there is also alot moving to those 3 cities mentioned so many where there was a party in Dallas for grand rapids people and they had almost 1,000 show up.
Most definitely its alot moving to those suburbs. Especially because of the schools. But there is also alot moving to those 3 cities mentioned so many where there was a party in Dallas for grand rapids people and they had almost 1,000 show up.
I know what you are referring to in terms of the party and this occurs with people that have transplanted from other Northern and even Western areas.
Aren’t many just moving to Kentwood, Wyoming and even spreading out to other suburbs like Grandville, East GR, Northview and Comstock Park?
Yes that is correct. The city of Grand Rapids has a declining AA population. It is offset by a shift to the inner ring suburbs. The area as a whole is still gaining black residents, albeit at the slowest rate of any demographic.
Boston has added 17k white people and 18k black people since 2000. It has also added 53k Hispanics. All of the suburbs except Somerville and maybe Cambridge have seen losses in white population and growth in all other demographics tho. Massachusetts as a whole loses white population faster than just about any state in the nation yet it is doing exceptionally well. I think many native whites who do well in MA move south or west ASAP and native blacks don't have as much opportunity to do so.
59% of black children born in MA are to immigrants (Haiti, Cape Verde, Jamaica, Nigeria).
83% of Asian babies born in MA are to immigrants (Cambodia, Vietnam, China)
49% of Hispanic babies in MA are born to immigrants(Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Colombia),
Only 16% of white babies in MA are born to immigrants.
White births in MA declined from 72k in 1990 and 72% of births to 44k and 59% of births in 2016.
Whites are almost only moving into Boston, Cambridge, and Somerville in this entire state and I do think that helps keep the economic engine afloat.
Maybe immigration of skilled and hardworking people and highly educated young white is what keeps an urban economy churning after all.
That is interesting because the black demographic on the East Coast has been fueled by immigrants. Many AA are leaving the East Coast cities but they are being more than made up for by black immigrants from other nations. Immigration is what saved many East Coast cities. If Detroit had immigrants like the East Coast, its population would still be around a million.
It's something encouraging, to me, about an area when you see the non immigrant black and white population moving in the same direction in the city as well as the suburbs. Such places are usually sun belt cities.
Aren’t many just moving to Kentwood, Wyoming and even spreading out to other suburbs like Grandville, East GR, Northview and Comstock Park?
That's misleading. Keep in mind the number of people leaving Saginaw, Flint, Detroit and Chicago areas. Grand Rapids gets a small percent of that and that is why the overall population of AA in the Grand Rapids metro is growing slightly. These are not middle class upwardly mobile black professionals, but mostly poor transplants from those areas. Few middle class black professional want anything to do with Grand Rapids. Most of Grand Rapids black middle class is from Factory work and the percentage of factory work that pays middle class wages has reduced significantly in the area. Blacks just do poorly in the area. You can't just up and leave as a black middle class factory worker because your skill set is not transferable to any place else, usually. So even if you don't like GR, you are stuck there because your skill set is not marketable anywhere else. If you are a black business professional, you are trying to get the hell out of there, as well as if you don't have any general skills.
I know Kentwood is the suburb of choice for most AA. There has been a boom in low income housing options in Kentwood....that did not exist when I lived in Grand Rapids. I know people who were on section 8 living in the city, in the last 5 years, who were essentially told they could not use their section 8 in the city anymore and had to go out to the burbs. A lot of poor AA moved from the city to Kentwood into low income housing. The AA I know who live in non subsidized housing in Kentwood were nearly all workers at GM, Steel Case, etc.
I don't think there is any question that the place to be, right now, is the City of Grand Rapids. Walkable, dense areas near public transit and near social and cultural amenities are the trend nationally and such traits you will find in most central cities. I don't know if its coincidence or conspiracy that the black population is shrinking in the city while the white population is rising. However, its reminiscent of the period when the black population was rising in the city while the white population was shrinking. Its something wrong when both those demographics are not moving in the same direction....in the "place to be".
Keep in mind that statistics are OBSERVATIONS (snap shots)...and not EXPLANATIONS (why). Statistics often don't tell you the true story. The thing to note about blacks in Grand Rapids is that they have high rates of poverty and there seems to be little opportunity to break out that poverty. That is a startling fact in a city where things seem to be going so well from the perspective of whites. Its one thing if you live in an area like Flint or Detroit where things overall has just be economically depressed for everyone. However, things seem to be booming in Grand Rapids for whites, while busting in Grand Rapids for blacks, whether Grand Rapids or Kentwood. If not for the people tricking in from Flint, Saginaw, Detroit and Chicago.....the black population would be in decline overall.
That's misleading. Keep in mind the number of people leaving Saginaw, Flint, Detroit and Chicago areas. Grand Rapids gets a small percent of that and that is why the overall population of AA in the Grand Rapids metro is growing slightly. These are not middle class upwardly mobile black professionals, but mostly poor transplants from those areas. Few middle class black professional want anything to do with Grand Rapids. Most of Grand Rapids black middle class is from Factory work and the percentage of factory work that pays middle class wages has reduced significantly in the area. Blacks just do poorly in the area. You can't just up and leave as a black middle class factory worker because your skill set is not transferable to any place else, usually. So even if you don't like GR, you are stuck there because your skill set is not marketable anywhere else. If you are a black business professional, you are trying to get the hell out of there, as well as if you don't have any general skills.
I know Kentwood is the suburb of choice for most AA. There has been a boom in low income housing options in Kentwood....that did not exist when I lived in Grand Rapids. I know people who were on section 8 living in the city, in the last 5 years, who were essentially told they could not use their section 8 in the city anymore and had to go out to the burbs. A lot of poor AA moved from the city to Kentwood into low income housing. The AA I know who live in non subsidized housing in Kentwood were nearly all workers at GM, Steel Case, etc.
I don't think there is any question that the place to be, right now, is the City of Grand Rapids. Walkable, dense areas near public transit and near social and cultural amenities are the trend nationally and such traits you will find in most central cities. I don't know if its coincidence or conspiracy that the black population is shrinking in the city while the white population is rising. However, its reminiscent of the period when the black population was rising in the city while the white population was shrinking. Its something wrong when both those demographics are not moving in the same direction....in the "place to be".
Keep in mind that statistics are OBSERVATIONS (snap shots)...and not EXPLANATIONS (why). Statistics often don't tell you the true story. The thing to note about blacks in Grand Rapids is that they have high rates of poverty and there seems to be little opportunity to break out that poverty. That is a startling fact in a city where things seem to be going so well from the perspective of whites. Its one thing if you live in an area like Flint or Detroit where things overall has just be economically depressed for everyone. However, things seem to be booming in Grand Rapids for whites, while busting in Grand Rapids for blacks, whether Grand Rapids or Kentwood. If not for the people tricking in from Flint, Saginaw, Detroit and Chicago.....the black population would be in decline overall.
I understand what you are referring to, but I don't know how that question is misleading, given that black(and Hispanic-i.e.-Wyoming) growth into the suburbs is occurring in pretty much all areas, regardless of growth pattern.
Same goes for mid sized areas attracting people from bigger metro areas.
I said something a long time ago on this forum that the US is headed towards what is more common in Europe, where the city is where the upper middle class and rich live and the poor, working/lower middle class is in the suburbs.
I understand what you are referring to, but I don't know how that question is misleading, given that black(and Hispanic-i.e.-Wyoming) growth into the suburbs is occurring in pretty much all areas, regardless of growth pattern.
Same goes for mid sized areas attracting people from bigger metro areas.
I said something a long time ago on this forum that the US is headed towards what is more common in Europe, where the city is where the upper middle class and rich live and the poor, working/lower middle class is in the suburbs.
It's misleading in the sense that traditionally people may associate moving to the suburbs as "moving up". While some of that is true of Kentwood, Kentwood has become known as "Rentwood" for the number of apartments and low income housing options. When I lived in Grand Rapids Kentwood was considered an affluent area to blacks. About 15 years ago I was visiting Grand Rapids and trying to look up an old friend who lived in some apartments in Kentwood and I accidentally turned into some other apartments. I asked a group of teens where the apartments were at that I was looking for and I thought they were going to try to rob me. Mind you, I am a former Detroiter and I know "that look". It's universal. Kentwood is not what it used to be.
Its akin to the East Coast where many native African Americans have been leaving the big cities for some time now, but they have been replaced by black immigrants. In Grand Rapids you have many long time AA seeking to move out the area, but that is offset by the AA economic refugees from Saginaw, Flint and Detroit. I mean, when you visit Grand Rapids it gives you the impression that the city has it going on. So if you are coming from Flint, Saginaw, Benton Harbor....maybe Detroit....you might want to give it a shot and many do give it a shot. Lots of Saginaw and Benton Harbor blacks in Grand Rapids area and of course Detroit. So its not as simple as blacks moving from Grand Rapids city to the suburbs. You have blacks coming from out of town right into the low income housing in the suburbs too, as well as some blacks from the city moving to the suburbs and out of town. Now in the case of Detroit, its more as simple as blacks moving from the city to the suburbs (and out of the area) in explaining the decline in black population in the city of Detroit., because Detroit is not considered an option for economic refugees from other areas. Grand Rapids and Ann Arbor are really the only cities that look like vibrant not just in the downtown, in Michigan.
Another city in the Midwest that is loosing black population is Madison, Wisconsin. I am sure the overall population of the Madison metro area is growing, but to see the city growing while the black population is declining is again disturbing because it reveals how strongly coupled race and class still are in these areas. Hence, my focus is really on a declining black population in the city.....not the suburb. The city is becoming the place to be and hence, once again, blacks seem to be declining in the wrong place at the wrong time. If cities are becoming the place to be....then black peoples population should be INCREASING in cities, not decreasing.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 10-15-2018 at 03:34 PM..
It's misleading in the sense that traditionally people may associate moving to the suburbs as "moving up". While some of that is true of Kentwood, Kentwood has become known as "Rentwood" for the number of apartments and low income housing options. When I lived in Grand Rapids Kentwood was considered an affluent area to blacks. About 15 years ago I was visiting Grand Rapids and trying to look up an old friend who lived in some apartments in Kentwood and I accidentally turned into some other apartments. I asked a group of teens where the apartments were at that I was looking for and I thought they were going to try to rob me. Mind you, I am a former Detroiter and I know "that look". It's universal. Kentwood is not what it used to be.
Its akin to the East Coast where many native African Americans have been leaving the big cities for some time now, but they have been replaced by black immigrants. In Grand Rapids you have many long time AA seeking to move out the area, but that is offset by the AA economic refugees from Saginaw, Flint and Detroit. I mean, when you visit Grand Rapids it gives you the impression that the city has it going on. So if you are coming from Flint, Saginaw, Benton Harbor....maybe Detroit....you might want to give it a shot and many do give it a shot. Lots of Saginaw and Benton Harbor blacks in Grand Rapids area and of course Detroit. So its not as simple as blacks moving from Grand Rapids city to the suburbs. You have blacks coming from out of town right into the low income housing in the suburbs too, as well as some blacks from the city moving to the suburbs and out of town. Now in the case of Detroit, its more as simple as blacks moving from the city to the suburbs (and out of the area) in explaining the decline in black population in the city of Detroit., because Detroit is not considered an option for economic refugees from other areas. Grand Rapids and Ann Arbor are really the only cities that look like vibrant not just in the downtown, in Michigan.
Another city in the Midwest that is loosing black population is Madison, Wisconsin. I am sure the overall population of the Madison metro area is growing, but to see the city growing while the black population is declining is again disturbing because it reveals how strongly coupled race and class still are in these areas.
There wasn’t an implication of moving to suburbs equating to “moving on up” though. I’m sure some are, but as mentioned, there are many suburbs with low or mixed income apartments too. So, two things could be occurring at the same time.
Are there areas of the GR metro that have a visible black middle class that you could think of?
Is that true in regards to Madison? I thought it would be holding steady or have small growth in that regard.
There wasn’t an implication of moving to suburbs equating to “moving on up” though. I’m sure some are, but as mentioned, there are many suburbs with low or mixed income apartments too. So, two things could be occurring at the same time.
Are there areas of the GR metro that have a visible black middle class that you could think of?
Is that true in regards to Madison? I thought it would be holding steady or have small growth in that regard.
No. I was not saying that was your implication. Yours was just interpreted as a question of direction of population flow. Moving to the suburbs, however, was historically seen as moving up for blacks. As you pointed out correctly, that is not always the case anymore.
Gr to Okc was simply making a point that I totally concur with, which is that there is not much opportunity for blacks in GR as one would think given all the favorable things about Grand Rapids in general. Native or long time AA are indeed leaving the GR area, the city and suburbs. That is not unique to Grand Rapids as all places have people moving in from different places and moving out of natives. However, Grand Rapids is supposed to be an up and coming city. why would natives want to leave an up and coming city? Natives are not wanting to leave Charlotte, Nashville, Atlanta, Dallas because they see opportunity their for themselves. Those places has strong growth of the black population because natives are staying and a lot more AA are moving there.
As far as I have seen, Grand Rapids has no visible Middle Class community. When you see a concentration of blacks in GR.....you see poverty.
No. I was not saying that was your implication. Yours was just interpreted as a question of direction of population flow. Moving to the suburbs, however, was historically seen as moving up for blacks. As you pointed out correctly, that is not always the case anymore.
Gr to Okc was simply making a point that I totally concur with, which is that there is not much opportunity for blacks in GR as one would think given all the favorable things about Grand Rapids in general. Native or long time AA are indeed leaving the GR area, the city and suburbs. That is not unique to Grand Rapids as all places have people moving in from different places and moving out of natives. However, Grand Rapids is supposed to be an up and coming city. why would natives want to leave an up and coming city? Natives are not wanting to leave Charlotte, Nashville, Atlanta, Dallas because they see opportunity their for themselves. Those places has strong growth of the black population because natives are staying and a lot more AA are moving there.
As far as I have seen, Grand Rapids has no visible Middle Class community. When you see a concentration of blacks in GR.....you see poverty.
Wow...So, GR doesn’t have any areas where there is at least a substantial black middle class presence? Not even in outer SE or parts of some of the previously mentioned suburbs?
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