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Having lived here 16 years, I'll say that it's a great way to live.
First of all, Southerners try to be polite to everybody, even people they do not care for. I don't think of that as hypocritical. Instead, I'd offer that it demonstrates a belief that everybody deserves fundamental courtesy in life.
At the same time, Southerners have a very nuanced and subtle vocabulary when dealing with people. And, in their own way, they're telling you precisely what they think. They're just not using blunt language to express it.
As a result, I've found that the people who complain about Southerners being two-faced are typically people who have the same basic social skillset of night-shift computer programmers.
So, when you deal with Southerners, you just have to learn how to read their signals. It's a lot like dealing with Japanese.
I have read several posts across many forums that characterize the typical manners of those of us in the Southeast as being phony or two-faced. I think of it as "social efficiency."
If you're from another part of the country, you might notice right away that I have stereotypical "Southern" qualities. I don't have an accent, but I'm soft-spoken and friendly, I say "please" and "thank you" in almost every exchange with people, and I tend to avoid confrontation when possible. I'm not defending backstabbing or gossiping; I don't do that. But if I don't know you well and you say something I disagree with, I'm more likely to smile and say, "Well, that's an interesting point," and see if you're willing to change the subject. If I get a sense over three or four incidents that I don't like being around you, I'll do my best to avoid you. If something doesn't affect me, I will avoid confrontation. You make a valid point when you say that we express ourselves without using blunt language to do it.
I don't want to make broad generalizations of Northerners any more than I want them doing the same to us. I am sometimes amazed by some of my friends in New York who express their opinion about everything. Nothing is too trivial to argue about, and once two guys get started neither will back down or let it go.
I'm not saying that my way is "right" but yes, there are cultural differences. I also use the word "courtesy" to describe everyday exchanges with people I don't know or barely know. It's the oil on the social gears of daily life. The problem comes when someone who doesn't operate this way makes an assumption based on the lack of a stated disagreement. But if you ask me a direct question, I'll answer it honestly (but of course I'll be very polite about it!).
I have been hear a year. Here's my OWN PERSONAL ACTUAL experience with "southerners". I refuse to speak for the entire south, that's just not fair. AGAIN, FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE:
1. They are in fact as crooked in business as portrayed on TV.
2. They are the crooked lawmen they are portrayed to be on the Dukes of Hazard and most other TV media.
3. Smiling hypocrites: I prefer the truth regardless of manners.
See, a smart Yankee can tell you the ugly truth in a very polite way but you'll get the message!
4. I'm still looking for a truly genuine, sophisticated, kind, well rounded southerner to call friend. (Actually, no I'm not, I'm done.)
5. They are horse starving, dog killing machines. I have photos.
6. They are greedy agri-whores. (Can I say that?)
7. They are weak kneed political doormats.
Now for all you Southerners who are hot and red faced and mad: EXCEPTIONS:
1. My neighbors at the new house who are originally from upstate NY, been here 16 years. (Sorry, they not true southerners)
2. The guy who fixed the HVAC in a rental house we had. Nice guy. Kudos Rick!
3. My neighbor who buried my horse. Much love to Mike and Missy. Only Missy is a native.
4. My other old neighbors T and K who babysat our animals and are so loving. Only T is a native though!
Gee, I hope this helps!
I have read several posts across many forums that characterize the typical manners of those of us in the Southeast as being phony or two-faced. I think of it as "social efficiency."
If you're from another part of the country, you might notice right away that I have stereotypical "Southern" qualities. I don't have an accent, but I'm soft-spoken and friendly, I say "please" and "thank you" in almost every exchange with people, and I tend to avoid confrontation when possible. I'm not defending backstabbing or gossiping; I don't do that. But if I don't know you well and you say something I disagree with, I'm more likely to smile and say, "Well, that's an interesting point," and see if you're willing to change the subject. If I get a sense over three or four incidents that I don't like being around you, I'll do my best to avoid you. If something doesn't affect me, I will avoid confrontation. You make a valid point when you say that we express ourselves without using blunt language to do it.
I don't want to make broad generalizations of Northerners any more than I want them doing the same to us. I am sometimes amazed by some of my friends in New York who express their opinion about everything. Nothing is too trivial to argue about, and once two guys get started neither will back down or let it go.
I'm not saying that my way is "right" but yes, there are cultural differences. I also use the word "courtesy" to describe everyday exchanges with people I don't know or barely know. It's the oil on the social gears of daily life. The problem comes when someone who doesn't operate this way makes an assumption based on the lack of a stated disagreement. But if you ask me a direct question, I'll answer it honestly (but of course I'll be very polite about it!).
You sound like a sophisticated, well rounded southerner. Perhaps we could have been friends... Yes, Yankees have opinions on everything. I surely do. I just call it:being alive and aware... although I can see why it would be annoying but it beats the tar out of talking about the weather.
hey timunh...
Funny....I'm 37...born and bred within 30 miles of NYC, and lived there for most of my life until last year. And I almost completely agree with your post, your attitudes, and your way of doing things. I would say that almost everyone I know and consider as friends from up north share many of those same positive attributes. I think that's just more about being a good person than being labeled as "northern"or "southern". Again...you get what you give.
and ddcortland...
I really admire you stepping up and speaking the truth as you've experienced it. I like the way that you allowed for the good experiences to be spotlighted as well. And I agree with most of your sentiments. Good post!
hey timunh...
Funny....I'm 37...born and bred within 30 miles of NYC, and lived there for most of my life until last year. And I almost completely agree with your post, your attitudes, and your way of doing things. I would say that almost everyone I know and consider as friends from up north share many of those same positive attributes. I think that's just more about being a good person than being labeled as "northern"or "southern". Again...you get what you give.
and ddcortland...
I really admire you stepping up and speaking the truth as you've experienced it. I like the way that you allowed for the good experiences to be spotlighted as well. And I agree with most of your sentiments. Good post!
I think sometimes that urban vs. rural differences sometimes get attributed to North vs. South differences. I always get annoyed when someone visits a small town in the Southeast and makes a generalization to the entire region. However, folks in New York (the state) have the opposite problem. Someone visits NYC and makes a broad generalization about the state or even the entire region.
One of my best friends is from a very small town in New York, about an hour and a half from NYC. I'm from a small town in Alabama, about an hour and a half from Atlanta. Folks in those small towns would probably find that they have a lot more in common with each other than they might expect!
...I say "please" and "thank you" in almost every exchange with people...
...I don't want to make broad generalizations of Northerners any more than I want them doing the same to us. I am sometimes amazed by some of my friends in New York who express their opinion about everything...
I have always said "please" and "thank you" as well, and I have taught my children to do the same. Southerners don't have some monopoly on politeness. Your comments also seem to confirm my previous comments that many southerners do perceive expressing an opinion as rudeness. You have also confirmed that you have a preference to avoid direct confrontation instead of addressing it. I and many up north prefer to address it.
I have always said "please" and "thank you" as well, and I have taught my children to do the same. Southerners don't have some monopoly on politeness. Your comments also seem to confirm my previous comments that many southerners do perceive expressing an opinion as rudeness. You have also confirmed that you have a preference to avoid direct confrontation instead of addressing it. I and many up north prefer to address it.
Again, just a big difference in cultures.
Expressing an opinion isn't being rude. I don't think anyone would ever say that. If someone I didn't know expressed an opinion about something that isn't a big deal in a harsh, agressive fashion, I would think it was rude. Courtesy takes priority over the need to express yourself about everything. That's all I'm saying. Perhaps I see the value in a social buffer zone more than some. You don't bring up controversial topics or say something that might be taken as an insult when you don't know someone well. And there's no reason to express a disagreement when the issue doesn't matter. After you become friends, you can get into a friendly argument because you know that they won't take it personally. I think it's a cautious approach that works well. That doesn't mean that someone who follows this approach will allow someone to take advantage of them.
Location: Official Missourian-Pray for the Natives
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Yeah, what he/she said....
Quote:
Originally Posted by timunh
Expressing an opinion isn't being rude. I don't think anyone would ever say that. If someone I didn't know expressed an opinion about something that isn't a big deal in a harsh, agressive fashion, I would think it was rude. Courtesy takes priority over the need to express yourself about everything. That's all I'm saying. Perhaps I see the value in a social buffer zone more than some. You don't bring up controversial topics or say something that might be taken as an insult when you don't know someone well. And there's no reason to express a disagreement when the issue doesn't matter. After you become friends, you can get into a friendly argument because you know that they won't take it personally. I think it's a cautious approach that works well. That doesn't mean that someone who follows this approach will allow someone to take advantage of them.
Well spoken. I second the motion. http://bestsmileys.com/cheering/4.gif (broken link)
Last edited by SassyGirl2; 04-06-2008 at 01:48 PM..
Reason: OOPS, TIMUNH is a HE. Should have looked at profile first. Sorry 'bout that.
My idea of Southern Hospitality is more life the "Golden Rule" with some extras thrown in. I was taught to say "please" and "thank you" also. If someone stabs you in the back, gossip, and pretend to like you while they really don't is not Southern Hospitality, it's Southern Hypocrisy. When I meet someone for the first time I do all I can to not make you my enemy. If someone is untruthful to you they are not showing hospitality. I always give poeple three chances to prove themself character wise and I give them an extra fourth;but my fourth act of mercy is "no holds barred" it's more like, "I don't care about your feeling or your thoughts of me, punk". If you waste your time to make someone feel at home and they don't riciprocate, north or south, forget them. Like I said I think honesty is a part of true Southern Hospitality, if someone notice that you have spinach in your teeth and they tell you that you're ready to have your picture taken in the most comforting way would you appreciate that. I do more straight talk Southern Hospitality if that make any sense.
Last edited by David Alleyne; 04-07-2008 at 08:45 AM..
Alright everyone, I know I will, in all likelyhood, get blasted to smithereens but here goes at my attempt to explain "Southern Hospitality" as I know it and have been reared to adhere to said practice.
What Southern Hospitality consists of is not meant to be interpreted as rude behavior, although most of us will speak "behind your back" with others we trust to ensure we have not erred in an opinion, statement or action. Most southerners are expected to display manners in a show of respect to others and not do or say anything harmful.
As an example, if a woman asks if her hat is becoming (pretty) and it is the most god ugly thing you ever laid eyes upon, it is considered respectful and mannerly to explain "That color makes your blue eyes mesmerizing." It is not a lie and no one's feelings were hurt. Hopefully this question will be asked within a department store where the item is being considered for purchase so your friend can be gently led to a better selection with an explanation akin to "Oh, honey, this one encases your lovely face so well it is as though the celestial lights of heaven are shining down upon you giving you the image of an earthbound angel." Forgive my verbosity, but you get the point. It is one of whyhurt someone's feelings by saying "That hat looks like a hippo's turd on top of your big fat pointed head, goofball!"
Don't get me wrong. Southerners can cut to the core with their "polite" sarcasm. Most just want to spare hurting the feelings of others or being confrontational for fear of being labeled "crude, rude and obnoxious". I guess you can say our mantra is "Be NICE!" In the South, it is verboten to appear uncouth in any way. BTW, don't let our slow, southern drawl fool you. It is a facade, a defensive mechanism, to fool our enemies into assuming we are inferior, mindless, boobs. Most are highly educated.
Well, just my humble attempt. No intent on stirring the pot.
As a true southern belle once taught me in her best southern drawl and smile, to beable to say, I think you're a b...ch. I thought I would die laughing. Sure have good use for that quite a bit lately.
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Yeah, what he/she said....
