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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Miami's Brickell financial district just across the river from downtown.
I guess it would count, right? I pretty much always include it as part of downtown, despite the "official boundaries." There's no real break between it and downtown aside from the river.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Miami's Brickell financial district just across the river from downtown.
Agreed! I got to see that part of downtown go from a no man's land into a high-dense area with highrises. It wasn't the most drastic change I've seen personally but that first boom transformed the area like crazy. The second boom, although not as crazy as the first has been done in a more responsible way.
You guys are missing the point of downtown 2.0: a large and built out extension of original downtown core that acts like a whole another downtown. Forinstance, Downtown San Diego: Petco Park had tremendous impact of the East Village area with a lot of new developments. Portland is another example: North of Burnside, a whole new urban area emerged. Not another existing built urban district like Midtown Atlanta. It's a separate neighborhood entity and urban area. The same goes for Miami: Brickell was already another urban and financial district that had nothing to do with downtown. River North had its own neighborhood separate identity from CBD. Downtown 2.0 is a whole new downtown and built out urban district part of CBD. Hopefully, it's clearer now.
For all the hype around South Lake Union/Denny Triangle being the new Downtown, that area is pretty dead after 8pm and majorly lacks character. Sure, theres a huge amount of construction, Amazon drone workers everywhere, a lot of tourists there to see Jeff’s balls, and a strong after work happy hour scene. But compared to more established adjacent areas like Westlake, Belltown, Capitol Hill, 1st Ave, Pioneer Square, it’s dead at night. SLU and Denny Triangle have no soul yet and it just feels like generic new high rise. There are many other adjacent areas that have more grit and character, as well tons of bars and restaurants open late. SLU and Denny Triangle is starting to get more but a lot of it is Hotel bars and second locations of other bars (e.g. Ba Bar and Flatstick Pub and a bunch of Tom Douglas crap), which all feel very corporate. Hence why it’s dead at night.
I guess it would count, right? I pretty much always include it as part of downtown, despite the "official boundaries." There's no real break between it and downtown aside from the river.
There's that "official boundaries" thing again. Cities divide themselves up for planning, park districts, etc., but why on earth would one try to decide whether "Downtown" really ended one street or another, except for a specific narrow purpose?
For all the hype around South Lake Union/Denny Triangle being the new Downtown, that area is pretty dead after 8pm and majorly lacks character. Sure, theres a huge amount of construction, Amazon drone workers everywhere, a lot of tourists there to see Jeff’s balls, and a strong after work happy hour scene. But compared to more established adjacent areas like Westlake, Belltown, Capitol Hill, 1st Ave, Pioneer Square, it’s dead at night. SLU and Denny Triangle have no soul yet and it just feels like generic new high rise. There are many other adjacent areas that have more grit and character, as well tons of bars and restaurants open late. SLU and Denny Triangle is starting to get more but a lot of it is Hotel bars and second locations of other bars (e.g. Ba Bar and Flatstick Pub and a bunch of Tom Douglas crap), which all feel very corporate. Hence why it’s dead at night.
It takes a lot more than density to be a vibrant district at night. That's more of a function of people coming from all over the city to a small area. If SLU and the DT became vibrant at night, it would be stealing from somewhere else.
That said, they'll change dramatically in the next couple years. The volume of housing and hotels currently happening, or just opened and still filling up, will be a pretty dramatic difference, as will the offices. The neighborhood's self-created buzz will be a noticably better.
Unfortunately that might be diffused activity, vs. being concentrated on a few streets. It's like we specifically don't want great retail/restaurant/bar streets in Seattle, because we require retail to be dotted everywhere.
It takes a lot more than density to be a vibrant district at night. That's more of a function of people coming from all over the city to a small area. If SLU and the DT became vibrant at night, it would be stealing from somewhere else.
That said, they'll change dramatically in the next couple years. The volume of housing and hotels currently happening, or just opened and still filling up, will be a pretty dramatic difference, as will the offices. The neighborhood's self-created buzz will be a noticably better.
Unfortunately that might be diffused activity, vs. being concentrated on a few streets. It's like we specifically don't want great retail/restaurant/bar streets in Seattle, because we require retail to be dotted everywhere.
There are still some pretty concentrated nightthlife districts in Seattle - Pike between Broadway and 12th, 1st and 2nd Aves in Belltown, Ballard Ave, Lower Fremont, the area around 85th and Greenwood. We don’t have anything like 6th St. in Austin but I actually prefer Seattle’s nightlife because there are so many more neighborhoods to choose from. SLU/Denny Triangle are not one of them yet though. Although don’t forget, the city is growing pretty quickly so I think there is still plenty of room for new nightlife districts.
Last edited by Vincent_Adultman; 11-15-2018 at 12:22 AM..
Yes but it's not like the bridge is a neighborhood. It is mostly distinct looking in that it's much more "modern" looking. As a Bostonian, I'm not saying these are all "downtown"; of course, I would never tell someone to meet me "downtown" to mean Back Bay or the Seaport, etc. But when I think about cities with two downtowns, I don't really think Boston either.
If we treat Boston Common as the center of "downtown Boston", it's 1.6 miles to Kendall, 1.6 miles to the Seaport, 0.8 miles to Copley. Compare that to the 4.9 miles between Public Square and University Circle (my earlier example of Cleveland). If you're in Cleveland, it's 1.5 miles from the main stretch of bars in the Flats to Playhouse Square. Just about the same distance as the Boston examples. But it's all downtown and continuous.
I wouldn't push the point on debating Back Bay/Financial District/Seaport (I think they're all functionally "downtown" in the broader sense). I think you're right, but other areas (i.e. River North, University City, Rincon Hill, Brickell, etc.) are all abutting the "downtown propers" in other cities and people are fine with labeling them "downtown 2.0." Back Bay and the Seaport are no different, though I tend to agree with you that they're part of a growing downtown core..
But Kendall is very much distinctly separate from those areas. It's not just a bridge that separates them. It's the non CBD neighborhoods of Beacon Hill/West End (if you're coming from the Financial District) and the physical barrier of a major river (not a small canal or narrow waterway). If you're going from Copley, it's the same story - you have to walk through a residential/non CBD district, cross the widest part of the Charles on a long bridge, walk through the MIT campus, and then you're in Kendall. It's also literally a separate municipality. Not a seamless transition regardless of the mileage. And aside form the physical separation, the development of the offices in that area (largely tech) has much more to do with being on a transit line and next to MIT than it does with the growth of downtown. It's an entirely separate business district politically, physically and functionally.
There's that "official boundaries" thing again. Cities divide themselves up for planning, park districts, etc., but why on earth would one try to decide whether "Downtown" really ended one street or another, except for a specific narrow purpose?
(Rhetorical question...they don't.)
Right. Which is why I consider Brickell to be a part of downtown Miami, despite some who think otherwise.
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