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OP, I wouldn't call Seattle a "cosmopolitan hot spot"; IMO it's not comparable to NYC or SF. It also is far from compact, which is one of the problems the author of the article had with it. I can relate to her comment about it taking half the evening just to go see a friend in a town shaped like a string bean. I, too, wasn't able to see some of my friends very regularly, because not only did they not live in the north end, where I was, I didn't have a car, and evening bus service and connections to cross-town service didn't work well at night. It took forever just to get to Cap Hill or the CD, let alone to anywhere in the southern part of the city, West Seattle, or out in Magnolia.. This contrasts fairly sharply with SF or NYC, which have good transit systems with frequent schedules. While the whole of NYC may not be compact, Manhattan is.
She also mentioned, that she'd made hardly any friends during the years she'd lived in Seattle, so she felt the Freeze, without naming it. My experience in NYC and SF is, that people are much friendlier, than in Seattle, but that may be a YMMV kind of thing. Some say SF isn't friendly; I say it is, if you know where to look.
The downside of moving to the South, especially from SF, but from anywhere on the West Coast, would be the radical change in weather: the summer heat and humidity. That wouldn't be doable for a lot of West Coast residents, especially the born-and-raised ones.
She also mentioned, that she'd made hardly any friends during the years she'd lived in Seattle, so she felt the Freeze, without naming it. My experience in NYC and SF is, that people are much friendlier, than in Seattle, but that may be a YMMV kind of thing. Some say SF isn't friendly; I say it is, if you know where to look.
I have the same response over and over for those who claim they can't make friends in Seattle.
OP, I wouldn't call Seattle a "cosmopolitan hot spot"; IMO it's not comparable to NYC or SF. It also is far from compact, which is one of the problems the author of the article had with it. I can relate to her comment about it taking half the evening just to go see a friend in a town shaped like a string bean. I, too, wasn't able to see some of my friends very regularly, because not only did they not live in the north end, where I was, I didn't have a car, and evening bus service and connections to cross-town service didn't work well at night. It took forever just to get to Cap Hill or the CD, let alone to anywhere in the southern part of the city, West Seattle, or out in Magnolia.
If you're going to make comments like this you really should note that you haven't lived in Seattle during this millennium. The Seattle you lived in 20+ years ago was a different city than the one the author lived in, for better or worse. It's lost a lot of its quirky character and charm, but is much more urban and cosmopolitan, with far better (and rapidly improving) transit service than even just 10 years ago. I agree it's not NYC or SF and the city's geography can make getting around tricky, but compared to most American cities it has a compact, walkable urban core and several other dense-ish neighborhoods towards the outer parts of the city. And a lot of the "big-city" issues the author mentions have intensified a great deal in recent years.
Also, as someone who lived for over a decade in the Bay Area and still visits regularly, I'd have to strongly disagree with you that the Bay Area is friendlier than Seattle. The Peninsula and South Bay in particular take the idea of a "freeze" to a completely different level.
If you're going to make comments like this you really should note that you haven't lived in Seattle during this millennium. The Seattle you lived in 20+ years ago was a different city than the one the author lived in, for better or worse. It's lost a lot of its quirky character and charm, but is much more urban and cosmopolitan, with far better (and rapidly improving) transit service than even just 10 years ago. I agree it's not NYC or SF and the city's geography can make getting around tricky, but compared to most American cities it has a compact, walkable urban core and several other dense-ish neighborhoods towards the outer parts of the city. And a lot of the "big-city" issues the author mentions have intensified a great deal in recent years.
Also, as someone who lived for over a decade in the Bay Area and still visits regularly, I'd have to strongly disagree with you that the Bay Area is friendlier than Seattle. The Peninsula and South Bay in particular take the idea of a "freeze" to a completely different level.
I didn't say "the Bay Area", I said SF, and I meant SF. Similarly, when I say "Seattle", I don't mean the Greater Seattle Area. I mean the city.
I moved out of Seattle in the current millennium, thanks, and have visited a few times. Saying it has "a compact urban core" doesn't mean the city is compact. You're cherry-picking, now. The fact that you describe the urban core, then "several other dense-fish neighborhoods toward the outer parts of the city" proves it's not compact, especially compared to SF's 7 x 7 miles. A city with a dense core with satellites of density around its outer edges is by definition far from compact. At least we're agreed on the fact that it's a difficult geography to work with.
I would have to agree with Ruth4Truth. I've made it clear thet Seattle is my favorite part of the US and where I do want to eventually end up but it isn't exactly the definition of cosmopolitan. I'd say at least ten or so other US metros are more worldly.
I see some of her points but the thing about living in a large city or a super expensive area, it's not for everyone.
I see it all the time in DC, kids move here from other parts of the country and they're not prepared for what hits them and you can usually tell the people who won't last long. It's super stressful and it takes a certain type of person to be able to live that kind of lifestyle, not necessarily type A but someone who is super ambitious and motivated and deeply driven.
Some people aren't interested in fancy titles or promotions or getting a huge bonus, some people are happier living a simple life, going to work and making a decent amount of money and enjoying life outside of work. The moral to the story: do your homework and know what you're signing up for before moving somewhere. Life in a big city is not 'Friends', it's a lot more nuanced than that.
I love how Nicole just glossed over the fact that where she moved - Cedar Rapids, IA - is a 2 hour drive from her parents. I think that might have been a bigger reason why she moved (back) than she would like to admit.
And good for her if she can make more money in Iowa doing freelance work than in Seattle. I know I couldn’t earn nearly the same in my field. For me, personally, moving to Seattle from a midsized metro not far from Iowa meant a significant pay increase and equally significant drop in my overall tax burden. So even with the added housing costs, considering the additional externalities Seattle has to offer in terms of culture and outdoor opportunities, I have been very happy with my move.
Not to say Seattle isn’t expensive, but her story isn’t really representative of people who leave because, and only because, they are truly priced out.
I didn't want to copy the whole list, but generally, your rent shouldn't be more than 1/3 of your income. Some sources say 30%, some say 1/3, so lets say around 33%. Almost every metro is around that range.
Depends. Life isn't simple answers.
Someone with kids, debt, and a car generally shouldn't spend over 30%, sure.
But someone with no kids, no debt, and no car might be able to do 50% while also putting a good amount into retirement, etc.
COL is only one piece of the equation; there are other advantages to living in smaller metros. Two big ones for me are:
1. Closer access to nature, at least nature where you don't have to stay on the path and hear everyone else's conversations. You don't have to drive 35 minutes to the edge of the metro to get away from development, where once you get there, there's tons of people parked in the parking lot. It seems like you have to get a little rural to find the wildlife and quiet and peace of nature to yourself. LA may have more grand scenery than Cedar Rapids, but I'd put money on Cedar Rapids individuals actually spending more time outside. There's so many areas of the US that are reasonably scenic, basically the plains and barren desert parts are the exceptions.
2. Closer social circles. There may be some personality issues as to why people say Seattle feels isolating, but I think very big cities in general can feel isolating. The reason for this is no one knows anyone elses acquaintances. The more people in a place, the more diffuse the social circles so it's harder to make shared connections. Also there's less chance encounters where you see people you know, so everyone can seem like a stranger more often when your out in public.
I kind of long to live in a smaller city (100K-500K) because I don't really care about things like sports, fine dining, 24 hour service, great transit (I just want a quick commute), diversity... Since those aren't high on my list, I feel like I'd be better off in a place where I can have a better experience with the things I do enjoy, my house, being outdoors, time with friends and family. There'd for sure be things I miss about Denver if I moved, but I think I could make up for that with travel.
City Data is biased towards larger cities by the people it attracts (it's not country-data ), so it tends to place more emphasis on amenities and institutions and things like that than the average American would.
Really clear to see the agenda of some posters. Comparing the entire city of Seattle vs Manhattan? Come on.
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