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This is super depressing. Why is this a thing again?
Weird. CDC says it's still a high percentage. https://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-...kidsvaccs.html
CDC: Vaccination Coverage of Children Remains High
Rates of Unvaccinated, Vaccine-exempt Children Increase Slightly
October 19, 2018 02:13 pm News Staff – A pair of CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports (MMWRs) released Oct. 12 offered an overview of vaccination status among young children in the United States, most of which was positive.
It would be nice if "doing your research" meant finding knowledgeable sources, not finding blogs written by nutjobs.
The world is going to hell because there are a lot of traps that gullible and stupid people (and even smart people) can fall into.
It's nice that she is on here promoting vaccination actually. If you find her posts she's on a lot of vaccine-related threads. That's practically all she does on here. That's how I got here.
While I agree with vaccines preventing disease and encourage people to get them, her and I disagree on mandating them. I think that's part of what has turned the small percentage of people off from getting them recently. Although very small, it's worth noting that with the push of mandates, and all the bad press the pharma companies have gotten lately I don't act surprised that people are defending themselves.
Full disc!osure: I am not an anti-vaxxer. My 2 children and 6 grandchildren have all been vaccinated, and nobody got sick from it. This post is not just about vaccines.
Government mandates should never be allowed to stand. It doesn't matter whether it's related to vaccines, or some other medical procedure. This country was founded on liberty for all persons, and upon individual rights to decide for themselves what is best for them and their families. This includes religious, philosophical, and biological objections. A free citizen does not allow any government to dictate or mandate physical and biological procedures.
No government should mandate:
What individuals may or may not believe in, or choose to do.
Which foreign substance must be introduced into the human body, by any means.
Which medical procedures must be performed on the human body.
What type of food must be used to feed the human body.
Which life-saving medical procedures will or will not be covered by medical insurance.
We are on a slippery slope here. Any one of us may find ourselves on the opposite side of government mandates, at the drop of a hat. This extends far beyond vaccinations. We must all be careful what we wish for!
Hard truth, the planet is over-populated and Mother Nature doesn't have many methods to control human population left. War works in a limited area. Disease epidemic works only slightly as humans discover the methods to fight disease.
There is a pretty good scientific fight against famine and drought gets overcome by international shipping of food.
Large chunks of the population left unvaccinated leaves the population open to some epidemic population control.
Measles wiped out large percentages of populations that had never been exposed to measles (Polynesians and Native Americans) and we are fast turning into a population that has never been exposed to measles.
Mother Nature takes the weak when she culls. Not protecting yourself from known danger seems to meet Mother Nature's definition of "weak".
So, I think this anti-vax thing will work itself out eventually.
Full disc!osure: I am not an anti-vaxxer. My 2 children and 6 grandchildren have all been vaccinated, and nobody got sick from it. This post is not just about vaccines.
Government mandates should never be allowed to stand. It doesn't matter whether it's related to vaccines, or some other medical procedure. This country was founded on liberty for all persons, and upon individual rights to decide for themselves what is best for them and their families. This includes religious, philosophical, and biological objections. A free citizen does not allow any government to dictate or mandate physical and biological procedures.
No government should mandate:
What individuals may or may not believe in, or choose to do.
Which foreign substance must be introduced into the human body, by any means.
Which medical procedures must be performed on the human body.
What type of food must be used to feed the human body.
Which life-saving medical procedures will or will not be covered by medical insurance.
We are on a slippery slope here. Any one of us may find ourselves on the opposite side of government mandates, at the drop of a hat. This extends far beyond vaccinations. We must all be careful what we wish for!
There are government mandates that touch everyone in the country every day. Every law and regulation is a "mandate". The government "mandates" how we drive on our roads. It "mandates" how bridges and skyscrapers are built. It "mandates" how elevators are inspected and maintained. It "mandates" how airplanes are maintained. It "mandates" procedures to protect our food and water. All of those are to improve the public safety.
School mandates are no different. They are there to protect our children - and all of us - from infectious diseases that can maim and kill.
Your "liberty" and "rights" end where they conflict with the "liberty" and "rights" of other people. That is why you cannot drive 160 MPH on a public road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke
Hard truth, the planet is over-populated and Mother Nature doesn't have many methods to control human population left. War works in a limited area. Disease epidemic works only slightly as humans discover the methods to fight disease.
There is a pretty good scientific fight against famine and drought gets overcome by international shipping of food.
Large chunks of the population left unvaccinated leaves the population open to some epidemic population control.
Measles wiped out large percentages of populations that had never been exposed to measles (Polynesians and Native Americans) and we are fast turning into a population that has never been exposed to measles.
Mother Nature takes the weak when she culls. Not protecting yourself from known danger seems to meet Mother Nature's definition of "weak".
So, I think this anti-vax thing will work itself out eventually.
The problem is that people who are voluntarily unvaccinated take some who are unvaccinated by necessity with them.
This is super depressing. Why is this a thing again?
Can you post the number of cases in those states so we can see the results of the vaccination program? There should be lots of cases in states with low vaccination rates. Remember that vaccine refers to the shot. Not to any state of health.
Full disc!osure: I am not an anti-vaxxer. My 2 children and 6 grandchildren have all been vaccinated, and nobody got sick from it. This post is not just about vaccines.
Government mandates should never be allowed to stand. It doesn't matter whether it's related to vaccines, or some other medical procedure. This country was founded on liberty for all persons, and upon individual rights to decide for themselves what is best for them and their families. This includes religious, philosophical, and biological objections. A free citizen does not allow any government to dictate or mandate physical and biological procedures.
No government should mandate:
What individuals may or may not believe in, or choose to do.
Which foreign substance must be introduced into the human body, by any means.
Which medical procedures must be performed on the human body.
What type of food must be used to feed the human body.
Which life-saving medical procedures will or will not be covered by medical insurance.
We are on a slippery slope here. Any one of us may find ourselves on the opposite side of government mandates, at the drop of a hat. This extends far beyond vaccinations. We must all be careful what we wish for!
Absolutely agree. Unfortunately many seem to want to give up their freedoms.
It's too easy to just wash things away with the word "stupid". Oh, something in front of us we don't like/agree with and it's "stupid".
My take on this is people are less trusting and more fearful which doesn't equate to stupid. Information is disseminated in different ways and we have a lot more avenues of information now than before. In decades past we were limited in the scope of info we could look into and the people we could communicate with. Now we have all of that at our fingertips, anywhere, anytime.
A lot more opinions are out there and lots more people are hearing them. Perhaps they are getting erroneous information and getting scared but that doesn't make them stupid people. It's extremely difficult when you're in a position to not know who is telling you the truth and you don't know who to trust.
You can blindly trust the government and CDC and get your kids jabbed up, or you can research it and perhaps want to get the kids vaccinated but on a different schedule than is recommended by the gov. Or maybe you think some vax's are ok but don't want others.
Some vax's are bad for folks with certain allergies. That's legit and people *should* be aware of what is in a vaccine before getting it. Like albumin etc.
Some vaccines use the cell lines from aborted babies and maybe that's not something you want to receive because of your beliefs.
Maybe you became aware of VAERS and got spooked.
Maybe you wondered why you were signing a form taking responsibility for any adverse reactions even though 1) you're not a medical doctor and haven't deeply studied epidemiology and 2) doctors insist that vaccines are super duper safe and nothing bad will happen so why don't they take the responsibility if they belief that so strongly? I mean, what's there to be afraid of? Getting sued? But the chance of having something happen and being sued is SO infinitesimal surely it's worth them to take the risk if it means more kids get vaccinated, right?
Maybe you're a parent who wants to have your kid get the MMR one at a time instead of bundled. They don't offer this even though it means MORE kids would be protected. Can you imagine why that is? Because of money, that's why. Only money. Even when parents are willing to pay more to have them broken up, they won't do it. It seems insane to me when the goal is getting kids vaccinated. Why not break them up if that means parents can get it done and sleep well at night? Isn't it worth a little cost? Why just push it away and insist the parent doesn't have a right to be wary and insist they do 3 at once?
BTW, you can't really tell which vaccine caused a reaction or problem if they're all bunched up together. The Pediarix vaccine is a 5 in one. FIVE. So if your kid has a reaction how will anyone know which part caused it and which vaccines they can't receive another dose of and which ones they can?
It is hard also to trust people from official places who lie right to your face and say that vaccines are absolutely required and they make no mention of any rights to claim exemption. I get that they don't want people to know their rights but they will say yes, your kid must be vaccinated by law. But there IS the option of exemption whether medical, philosophical or religious and that's an important distinction because we do live in a free country and many states do offer these choices. All states allow for medical exemptions.
It can get hard to trust doctors when your kid DOES have a reaction and they just tell you it's nothing or that it wasn't caused by the vaccine. Your concerns are waved away and you have no help or recourse. That's not a good way to treat these things if you want to encourage vaccination numbers. Especially when you hand a parent a sheet with a list of possible side effects and your child is experiencing one of them right in the room within a few minutes of receiving a shot and you're being told oh, they're just shocked from being jabbed. That definitely doesn't make you feel confident in the medical folks.
Another couple of points no one seems to want to talk about -- if your child or yourself is immunocompromised, pretty much anything in the world can take you down but the focus is always on the unvaccinated as if they're cesspools of germs. Not all the folks walking around sneezing and coughing without covering their noses/mouths or going to work sick because they don't have sick leave so they infect their whole workplace. Or the kids who show up with fevers at day care because the parent doesn't want to keep them home so again, infection gets everywhere.
Why on Earth would any immunocompromised person ONLY look at unvax'd people as threats? Baby, the whole freaking world is a threat at that point. You're better off staying home and protecting yourself than going out and blaming everyone out there when you get sick. But some people are stuck on the idea that the unvaccinated are all like the walking dead carrying around a deadly germ that can wipe out humanity at any second.
Someone even said the unvaxxed should be thrown in jail for KILLING PEOPLE. How about we jail folks for coughing and hacking into the air and showing up in doctors offices with coughs and not using the mask that is RIGHT THERE for their use because they really just don't care if they get other people sick?
Or lets fine parents for not washing their kids hands enough because THAT can end up killing people, too. Kids pick their noses and then touch stuff all over.
Here's another point and I know this is a lot of thinking and going past the short answer of "stupidity, mass stupidity" but here goes:
Vaccination does NOT EQUAL immunization. This is absolutely crucial. We get vaccinated but who ever gets their titers checked? Have YOU ever? If you never did, how can you know you're even immune? Vaccine manufacturers (you really need to read those inserts with all the words on them before insisting anti vaxxers are all idiots, btw) will NEVER claim their product will absolutely immunize everyone. It's a crap shoot. Every person is different.
My child's first pediatrician was from Egypt. He told me that when he first came to the USA he was vaccinated but when tested they found he wasn't immunized so they had to do another round of shots. So why isn't EVERYONE checking to make sure 1) they are actually immunized and 2) they have received enough doses of whatever vax they first got?
Does any adult here EVER check their titers? I myself was vaccinated in the 70's with everything I was supposed to get but I only know for sure I'm immune to rubella because my titer was checked for that. Who the heck knows about the others?
I got a dtap last year for the tetanus shot we're all supposed to be receiving every 10 years as I had not had one in like 30 years. I had to get a stupid dtap for that so I got extra stuff I prolly didn't need.
But let me ask all of you who are so self righteous about who is stupid and who is smart --
Have you ever had your titers checked? Do you know you're immune at all?
Have you had your tetanus shot every ten years?
I can tell you right now you're just as horrible if you don't get your titers checked than any anti vaxxer because you yourself could be spreading disease to innocent immunocompromised people. What would make you think that you're somehow immune just through the power of believing you are?
Again, vaccine manufacturers don't guarantee immunity. You don't know for sure you're immunized if you never checked. And if you never bothered to find out, you can't judge anyone else's immunity status.
Now also let's do one final point. If all these anti vaxxers are just dang idiots and stupid uneducated people then they don't have the mental capacity to be able to legally consent to vaccination in the first place and therefore can't sign the required forms taking responsibility for the action.
You just shot yourself in the foot. Pardon the pun.
If you never considered any of the above, I could easily say you haven't educated yourself or aren't a very deep thinker or maybe you're just someone who believes whatever the TV tells them and trusts it all to be true (gullible).
At the very very least if you have never once read a vaccine manufacturer's insert that comes with the vaccines like I have, you can't dare to call yourself educated on the subject in any way. Just listening to, believing and repeating sound bites does not equal education.
I personally think vaccines are beneficial but I ALSO understand why parents are a lot more concerned about them these days. Just calling people "stupid" over and over certainly doesn't help the problem and just feed your own ego which of course is selfish and has nothing at all to do with saving lives.
Edited to add that I was really surprised that Pediarix contains bovine cells and monkey kidney cells as well. Maybe that really means nothing in the end, but how many people are even aware those things are in it? There may be reasons why someone wouldn't want that injected into them. Also there's less risk of adverse reaction (an association between a form of the MMR vaccine containing the Urabe mumps strain and rare adverse events of aseptic meningitis, a form of viral meningitis.) with the Jeryl Lynn mumps strain but you know why many countries are still using the other strains? GUESS. "MMR with the Urabe strain is much cheaper to manufacture than with the Jeryl Lynn strain."
Also parents should know that risk of seizure is higher about 2 weeks after an MMR dose than when first given. Does any doctor bother informing about that? I sure wasn't told about it.
There you go. Now that really should make you stop and think just a little bit but maybe it won't. Maybe you don't care. I think apathy is worse than stupidity because with apathy you knowingly turn away from the truth.
The truth is that anti-vaxxers can't be dealt with by simply calling "stupid" and "idiot" and walking away smug in your own greatness. You have to find out WHY they are anti-vax and take care to build trust and confidence through truth even if the truth means you have to face the fact that yes, vaccines can cause all sorts of reactions and yes some do have monkey cells in them and yes some do increase risk of seizure etc. Because those ARE facts, not fictions. Pretending it doesn't exist and that every vaccine is a shot of sunshine and rainbows is morally wrong and dangerous.It's too easy to just wash things away with the word "stupid". Oh, something in front of us we don't like/agree with and it's "stupid".
My take on this is people are less trusting and more fearful which doesn't equate to stupid. Information is disseminated in different ways and we have a lot more avenues of information now than before. In decades past we were limited in the scope of info we could look into and the people we could communicate with. Now we have all of that at our fingertips, anywhere, anytime.
A lot more opinions are out there and lots more people are hearing them. Perhaps they are getting erroneous information and getting scared but that doesn't make them stupid people. It's extremely difficult when you're in a position to not know who is telling you the truth and you don't know who to trust.
You can blindly trust the government and CDC and get your kids jabbed up, or you can research it and perhaps want to get the kids vaccinated but on a different schedule than is recommended by the gov. Or maybe you think some vax's are ok but don't want others.
Some vax's are bad for folks with certain allergies. That's legit and people *should* be aware of what is in a vaccine before getting it. Like albumin etc.
Some vaccines use the cell lines from aborted babies and maybe that's not something you want to receive because of your beliefs.
Maybe you became aware of VAERS and got spooked.
Maybe you wondered why you were signing a form taking responsibility for any adverse reactions even though 1) you're not a medical doctor and haven't deeply studied epidemiology and 2) doctors insist that vaccines are super duper safe and nothing bad will happen so why don't they take the responsibility if they belief that so strongly? I mean, what's there to be afraid of? Getting sued? But the chance of having something happen and being sued is SO infinitesimal surely it's worth them to take the risk if it means more kids get vaccinated, right?
Maybe you're a parent who wants to have your kid get the MMR one at a time instead of bundled. They don't offer this even though it means MORE kids would be protected. Can you imagine why that is? Because of money, that's why. Only money. Even when parents are willing to pay more to have them broken up, they won't do it. It seems insane to me when the goal is getting kids vaccinated. Why not break them up if that means parents can get it done and sleep well at night? Isn't it worth a little cost? Why just push it away and insist the parent doesn't have a right to be wary and insist they do 3 at once?
BTW, you can't really tell which vaccine caused a reaction or problem if they're all bunched up together. The Pediarix vaccine is a 5 in one. FIVE. So if your kid has a reaction how will anyone know which part caused it and which vaccines they can't receive another dose of and which ones they can?
It is hard also to trust people from official places who lie right to your face and say that vaccines are absolutely required and they make no mention of any rights to claim exemption. I get that they don't want people to know their rights but they will say yes, your kid must be vaccinated by law. But there IS the option of exemption whether medical, philosophical or religious and that's an important distinction because we do live in a free country and many states do offer these choices. All states allow for medical exemptions.
It can get hard to trust doctors when your kid DOES have a reaction and they just tell you it's nothing or that it wasn't caused by the vaccine. Your concerns are waved away and you have no help or recourse. That's not a good way to treat these things if you want to encourage vaccination numbers. Especially when you hand a parent a sheet with a list of possible side effects and your child is experiencing one of them right in the room within a few minutes of receiving a shot and you're being told oh, they're just shocked from being jabbed. That definitely doesn't make you feel confident in the medical folks.
Another couple of points no one seems to want to talk about -- if your child or yourself is immunocompromised, pretty much anything in the world can take you down but the focus is always on the unvaccinated as if they're cesspools of germs. Not all the folks walking around sneezing and coughing without covering their noses/mouths or going to work sick because they don't have sick leave so they infect their whole workplace. Or the kids who show up with fevers at day care because the parent doesn't want to keep them home so again, infection gets everywhere.
Why on Earth would any immunocompromised person ONLY look at unvax'd people as threats? Baby, the whole freaking world is a threat at that point. You're better off staying home and protecting yourself than going out and blaming everyone out there when you get sick. But some people are stuck on the idea that the unvaccinated are all like the walking dead carrying around a deadly germ that can wipe out humanity at any second.
Someone even said the unvaxxed should be thrown in jail for KILLING PEOPLE. How about we jail folks for coughing and hacking into the air and showing up in doctors offices with coughs and not using the mask that is RIGHT THERE for their use because they really just don't care if they get other people sick?
Or lets fine parents for not washing their kids hands enough because THAT can end up killing people, too. Kids pick their noses and then touch stuff all over.
Here's another point and I know this is a lot of thinking and going past the short answer of "stupidity, mass stupidity" but here goes:
Vaccination does NOT EQUAL immunization. This is absolutely crucial. We get vaccinated but who ever gets their titers checked? Have YOU ever? If you never did, how can you know you're even immune? Vaccine manufacturers (you really need to read those inserts with all the words on them before insisting anti vaxxers are all idiots, btw) will NEVER claim their product will absolutely immunize everyone. It's a crap shoot. Every person is different.
My child's first pediatrician was from Egypt. He told me that when he first came to the USA he was vaccinated but when tested they found he wasn't immunized so they had to do another round of shots. So why isn't EVERYONE checking to make sure 1) they are actually immunized and 2) they have received enough doses of whatever vax they first got?
Does any adult here EVER check their titers? I myself was vaccinated in the 70's with everything I was supposed to get but I only know for sure I'm immune to rubella because my titer was checked for that. Who the heck knows about the others?
I got a dtap last year for the tetanus shot we're all supposed to be receiving every 10 years as I had not had one in like 30 years. I had to get a stupid dtap for that so I got extra stuff I prolly didn't need.
But let me ask all of you who are so self righteous about who is stupid and who is smart --
Have you ever had your titers checked? Do you know you're immune at all?
Have you had your tetanus shot every ten years?
I can tell you right now you're just as horrible if you don't get your titers checked than any anti vaxxer because you yourself could be spreading disease to innocent immunocompromised people. What would make you think that you're somehow immune just through the power of believing you are?
Again, vaccine manufacturers don't guarantee immunity. You don't know for sure you're immunized if you never checked. And if you never bothered to find out, you can't judge anyone else's immunity status.
Now also let's do one final point. If all these anti vaxxers are just dang idiots and stupid uneducated people then they don't have the mental capacity to be able to legally consent to vaccination in the first place and therefore can't sign the required forms taking responsibility for the action.
You just shot yourself in the foot. Pardon the pun.
If you never considered any of the above, I could easily say you haven't educated yourself or aren't a very deep thinker or maybe you're just someone who believes whatever the TV tells them and trusts it all to be true (gullible).
At the very very least if you have never once read a vaccine manufacturer's insert that comes with the vaccines like I have, you can't dare to call yourself educated on the subject in any way. Just listening to, believing and repeating sound bites does not equal education.
I personally think vaccines are beneficial but I ALSO understand why parents are a lot more concerned about them these days. Just calling people "stupid" over and over certainly doesn't help the problem and just feed your own ego which of course is selfish and has nothing at all to do with saving lives.
Edited to add that I was really surprised that Pediarix contains bovine cells and monkey kidney cells as well. Maybe that really means nothing in the end, but how many people are even aware those things are in it? There may be reasons why someone wouldn't want that injected into them. Also there's less risk of adverse reaction (an association between a form of the MMR vaccine containing the Urabe mumps strain and rare adverse events of aseptic meningitis, a form of viral meningitis.) with the Jeryl Lynn mumps strain but you know why many countries are still using the other strains? GUESS. "MMR with the Urabe strain is much cheaper to manufacture than with the Jeryl Lynn strain."
Also parents should know that risk of seizure is higher about 2 weeks after an MMR dose than when first given. Does any doctor bother informing about that? I sure wasn't told about it.
There you go. Now that really should make you stop and think just a little bit but maybe it won't. Maybe you don't care. I think apathy is worse than stupidity because with apathy you knowingly turn away from the truth.
The truth is that anti-vaxxers can't be dealt with by simply calling "stupid" and "idiot" and walking away smug in your own greatness. You have to find out WHY they are anti-vax and take care to build trust and confidence through truth even if the truth means you have to face the fact that yes, vaccines can cause all sorts of reactions and yes some do have monkey cells in them and yes some do increase risk of seizure etc. Because those ARE facts, not fictions. Pretending it doesn't exist and that every vaccine is a shot of sunshine and rainbows is morally wrong and dangerous.
It's too easy to just wash things away with the word "stupid". Oh, something in front of us we don't like/agree with and it's "stupid".
My take on this is people are less trusting and more fearful which doesn't equate to stupid. Information is disseminated in different ways and we have a lot more avenues of information now than before. In decades past we were limited in the scope of info we could look into and the people we could communicate with. Now we have all of that at our fingertips, anywhere, anytime.
A lot more opinions are out there and lots more people are hearing them. Perhaps they are getting erroneous information and getting scared but that doesn't make them stupid people. It's extremely difficult when you're in a position to not know who is telling you the truth and you don't know who to trust.
You can blindly trust the government and CDC and get your kids jabbed up, or you can research it and perhaps want to get the kids vaccinated but on a different schedule than is recommended by the gov. Or maybe you think some vax's are ok but don't want others.
Some vax's are bad for folks with certain allergies. That's legit and people *should* be aware of what is in a vaccine before getting it. Like albumin etc.
Some vaccines use the cell lines from aborted babies and maybe that's not something you want to receive because of your beliefs.
Maybe you became aware of VAERS and got spooked.
Maybe you wondered why you were signing a form taking responsibility for any adverse reactions even though 1) you're not a medical doctor and haven't deeply studied epidemiology and 2) doctors insist that vaccines are super duper safe and nothing bad will happen so why don't they take the responsibility if they belief that so strongly? I mean, what's there to be afraid of? Getting sued? But the chance of having something happen and being sued is SO infinitesimal surely it's worth them to take the risk if it means more kids get vaccinated, right?
Maybe you're a parent who wants to have your kid get the MMR one at a time instead of bundled. They don't offer this even though it means MORE kids would be protected. Can you imagine why that is? Because of money, that's why. Only money. Even when parents are willing to pay more to have them broken up, they won't do it. It seems insane to me when the goal is getting kids vaccinated. Why not break them up if that means parents can get it done and sleep well at night? Isn't it worth a little cost? Why just push it away and insist the parent doesn't have a right to be wary and insist they do 3 at once?
BTW, you can't really tell which vaccine caused a reaction or problem if they're all bunched up together. The Pediarix vaccine is a 5 in one. FIVE. So if your kid has a reaction how will anyone know which part caused it and which vaccines they can't receive another dose of and which ones they can?
It is hard also to trust people from official places who lie right to your face and say that vaccines are absolutely required and they make no mention of any rights to claim exemption. I get that they don't want people to know their rights but they will say yes, your kid must be vaccinated by law. But there IS the option of exemption whether medical, philosophical or religious and that's an important distinction because we do live in a free country and many states do offer these choices. All states allow for medical exemptions.
It can get hard to trust doctors when your kid DOES have a reaction and they just tell you it's nothing or that it wasn't caused by the vaccine. Your concerns are waved away and you have no help or recourse. That's not a good way to treat these things if you want to encourage vaccination numbers. Especially when you hand a parent a sheet with a list of possible side effects and your child is experiencing one of them right in the room within a few minutes of receiving a shot and you're being told oh, they're just shocked from being jabbed. That definitely doesn't make you feel confident in the medical folks.
Another couple of points no one seems to want to talk about -- if your child or yourself is immunocompromised, pretty much anything in the world can take you down but the focus is always on the unvaccinated as if they're cesspools of germs. Not all the folks walking around sneezing and coughing without covering their noses/mouths or going to work sick because they don't have sick leave so they infect their whole workplace. Or the kids who show up with fevers at day care because the parent doesn't want to keep them home so again, infection gets everywhere.
Why on Earth would any immunocompromised person ONLY look at unvax'd people as threats? Baby, the whole freaking world is a threat at that point. You're better off staying home and protecting yourself than going out and blaming everyone out there when you get sick. But some people are stuck on the idea that the unvaccinated are all like the walking dead carrying around a deadly germ that can wipe out humanity at any second.
Someone even said the unvaxxed should be thrown in jail for KILLING PEOPLE. How about we jail folks for coughing and hacking into the air and showing up in doctors offices with coughs and not using the mask that is RIGHT THERE for their use because they really just don't care if they get other people sick?
Or lets fine parents for not washing their kids hands enough because THAT can end up killing people, too. Kids pick their noses and then touch stuff all over.
Here's another point and I know this is a lot of thinking and going past the short answer of "stupidity, mass stupidity" but here goes:
Vaccination does NOT EQUAL immunization. This is absolutely crucial. We get vaccinated but who ever gets their titers checked? Have YOU ever? If you never did, how can you know you're even immune? Vaccine manufacturers (you really need to read those inserts with all the words on them before insisting anti vaxxers are all idiots, btw) will NEVER claim their product will absolutely immunize everyone. It's a crap shoot. Every person is different.
My child's first pediatrician was from Egypt. He told me that when he first came to the USA he was vaccinated but when tested they found he wasn't immunized so they had to do another round of shots. So why isn't EVERYONE checking to make sure 1) they are actually immunized and 2) they have received enough doses of whatever vax they first got?
Does any adult here EVER check their titers? I myself was vaccinated in the 70's with everything I was supposed to get but I only know for sure I'm immune to rubella because my titer was checked for that. Who the heck knows about the others?
I got a dtap last year for the tetanus shot we're all supposed to be receiving every 10 years as I had not had one in like 30 years. I had to get a stupid dtap for that so I got extra stuff I prolly didn't need.
But let me ask all of you who are so self righteous about who is stupid and who is smart --
Have you ever had your titers checked? Do you know you're immune at all?
Have you had your tetanus shot every ten years?
I can tell you right now you're just as horrible if you don't get your titers checked than any anti vaxxer because you yourself could be spreading disease to innocent immunocompromised people. What would make you think that you're somehow immune just through the power of believing you are?
Again, vaccine manufacturers don't guarantee immunity. You don't know for sure you're immunized if you never checked. And if you never bothered to find out, you can't judge anyone else's immunity status.
Now also let's do one final point. If all these anti vaxxers are just dang idiots and stupid uneducated people then they don't have the mental capacity to be able to legally consent to vaccination in the first place and therefore can't sign the required forms taking responsibility for the action.
You just shot yourself in the foot. Pardon the pun.
If you never considered any of the above, I could easily say you haven't educated yourself or aren't a very deep thinker or maybe you're just someone who believes whatever the TV tells them and trusts it all to be true (gullible).
At the very very least if you have never once read a vaccine manufacturer's insert that comes with the vaccines like I have, you can't dare to call yourself educated on the subject in any way. Just listening to, believing and repeating sound bites does not equal education.
I personally think vaccines are beneficial but I ALSO understand why parents are a lot more concerned about them these days. Just calling people "stupid" over and over certainly doesn't help the problem and just feed your own ego which of course is selfish and has nothing at all to do with saving lives.
Edited to add that I was really surprised that Pediarix contains bovine cells and monkey kidney cells as well. Maybe that really means nothing in the end, but how many people are even aware those things are in it? There may be reasons why someone wouldn't want that injected into them. Also there's less risk of adverse reaction (an association between a form of the MMR vaccine containing the Urabe mumps strain and rare adverse events of aseptic meningitis, a form of viral meningitis.) with the Jeryl Lynn mumps strain but you know why many countries are still using the other strains? GUESS. "MMR with the Urabe strain is much cheaper to manufacture than with the Jeryl Lynn strain."
Also parents should know that risk of seizure is higher about 2 weeks after an MMR dose than when first given. Does any doctor bother informing about that? I sure wasn't told about it.
There you go. Now that really should make you stop and think just a little bit but maybe it won't. Maybe you don't care. I think apathy is worse than stupidity because with apathy you knowingly turn away from the truth.
The truth is that anti-vaxxers can't be dealt with by simply calling "stupid" and "idiot" and walking away smug in your own greatness. You have to find out WHY they are anti-vax and take care to build trust and confidence through truth even if the truth means you have to face the fact that yes, vaccines can cause all sorts of reactions and yes some do have monkey cells in them and yes some do increase risk of seizure etc. Because those ARE facts, not fictions. Pretending it doesn't exist and that every vaccine is a shot of sunshine and rainbows is morally wrong and dangerous.
It's too easy to just wash things away with the word "stupid". Oh, something in front of us we don't like/agree with and it's "stupid".
My take on this is people are less trusting and more fearful which doesn't equate to stupid. Information is disseminated in different ways and we have a lot more avenues of information now than before. In decades past we were limited in the scope of info we could look into and the people we could communicate with. Now we have all of that at our fingertips, anywhere, anytime.
A lot more opinions are out there and lots more people are hearing them. Perhaps they are getting erroneous information and getting scared but that doesn't make them stupid people. It's extremely difficult when you're in a position to not know who is telling you the truth and you don't know who to trust.
You can blindly trust the government and CDC and get your kids jabbed up, or you can research it and perhaps want to get the kids vaccinated but on a different schedule than is recommended by the gov. Or maybe you think some vax's are ok but don't want others.
Some vax's are bad for folks with certain allergies. That's legit and people *should* be aware of what is in a vaccine before getting it. Like albumin etc.
Some vaccines use the cell lines from aborted babies and maybe that's not something you want to receive because of your beliefs.
Maybe you became aware of VAERS and got spooked.
Maybe you wondered why you were signing a form taking responsibility for any adverse reactions even though 1) you're not a medical doctor and haven't deeply studied epidemiology and 2) doctors insist that vaccines are super duper safe and nothing bad will happen so why don't they take the responsibility if they belief that so strongly? I mean, what's there to be afraid of? Getting sued? But the chance of having something happen and being sued is SO infinitesimal surely it's worth them to take the risk if it means more kids get vaccinated, right?
Maybe you're a parent who wants to have your kid get the MMR one at a time instead of bundled. They don't offer this even though it means MORE kids would be protected. Can you imagine why that is? Because of money, that's why. Only money. Even when parents are willing to pay more to have them broken up, they won't do it. It seems insane to me when the goal is getting kids vaccinated. Why not break them up if that means parents can get it done and sleep well at night? Isn't it worth a little cost? Why just push it away and insist the parent doesn't have a right to be wary and insist they do 3 at once?
BTW, you can't really tell which vaccine caused a reaction or problem if they're all bunched up together. The Pediarix vaccine is a 5 in one. FIVE. So if your kid has a reaction how will anyone know which part caused it and which vaccines they can't receive another dose of and which ones they can?
It is hard also to trust people from official places who lie right to your face and say that vaccines are absolutely required and they make no mention of any rights to claim exemption. I get that they don't want people to know their rights but they will say yes, your kid must be vaccinated by law. But there IS the option of exemption whether medical, philosophical or religious and that's an important distinction because we do live in a free country and many states do offer these choices. All states allow for medical exemptions.
It can get hard to trust doctors when your kid DOES have a reaction and they just tell you it's nothing or that it wasn't caused by the vaccine. Your concerns are waved away and you have no help or recourse. That's not a good way to treat these things if you want to encourage vaccination numbers. Especially when you hand a parent a sheet with a list of possible side effects and your child is experiencing one of them right in the room within a few minutes of receiving a shot and you're being told oh, they're just shocked from being jabbed. That definitely doesn't make you feel confident in the medical folks.
Another couple of points no one seems to want to talk about -- if your child or yourself is immunocompromised, pretty much anything in the world can take you down but the focus is always on the unvaccinated as if they're cesspools of germs. Not all the folks walking around sneezing and coughing without covering their noses/mouths or going to work sick because they don't have sick leave so they infect their whole workplace. Or the kids who show up with fevers at day care because the parent doesn't want to keep them home so again, infection gets everywhere.
Why on Earth would any immunocompromised person ONLY look at unvax'd people as threats? Baby, the whole freaking world is a threat at that point. You're better off staying home and protecting yourself than going out and blaming everyone out there when you get sick. But some people are stuck on the idea that the unvaccinated are all like the walking dead carrying around a deadly germ that can wipe out humanity at any second.
Someone even said the unvaxxed should be thrown in jail for KILLING PEOPLE. How about we jail folks for coughing and hacking into the air and showing up in doctors offices with coughs and not using the mask that is RIGHT THERE for their use because they really just don't care if they get other people sick?
Or lets fine parents for not washing their kids hands enough because THAT can end up killing people, too. Kids pick their noses and then touch stuff all over.
Here's another point and I know this is a lot of thinking and going past the short answer of "stupidity, mass stupidity" but here goes:
Vaccination does NOT EQUAL immunization. This is absolutely crucial. We get vaccinated but who ever gets their titers checked? Have YOU ever? If you never did, how can you know you're even immune? Vaccine manufacturers (you really need to read those inserts with all the words on them before insisting anti vaxxers are all idiots, btw) will NEVER claim their product will absolutely immunize everyone. It's a crap shoot. Every person is different.
My child's first pediatrician was from Egypt. He told me that when he first came to the USA he was vaccinated but when tested they found he wasn't immunized so they had to do another round of shots. So why isn't EVERYONE checking to make sure 1) they are actually immunized and 2) they have received enough doses of whatever vax they first got?
Does any adult here EVER check their titers? I myself was vaccinated in the 70's with everything I was supposed to get but I only know for sure I'm immune to rubella because my titer was checked for that. Who the heck knows about the others?
I got a dtap last year for the tetanus shot we're all supposed to be receiving every 10 years as I had not had one in like 30 years. I had to get a stupid dtap for that so I got extra stuff I prolly didn't need.
But let me ask all of you who are so self righteous about who is stupid and who is smart --
Have you ever had your titers checked? Do you know you're immune at all?
Have you had your tetanus shot every ten years?
I can tell you right now you're just as horrible if you don't get your titers checked than any anti vaxxer because you yourself could be spreading disease to innocent immunocompromised people. What would make you think that you're somehow immune just through the power of believing you are?
Again, vaccine manufacturers don't guarantee immunity. You don't know for sure you're immunized if you never checked. And if you never bothered to find out, you can't judge anyone else's immunity status.
Now also let's do one final point. If all these anti vaxxers are just dang idiots and stupid uneducated people then they don't have the mental capacity to be able to legally consent to vaccination in the first place and therefore can't sign the required forms taking responsibility for the action.
You just shot yourself in the foot. Pardon the pun.
If you never considered any of the above, I could easily say you haven't educated yourself or aren't a very deep thinker or maybe you're just someone who believes whatever the TV tells them and trusts it all to be true (gullible).
At the very very least if you have never once read a vaccine manufacturer's insert that comes with the vaccines like I have, you can't dare to call yourself educated on the subject in any way. Just listening to, believing and repeating sound bites does not equal education.
I personally think vaccines are beneficial but I ALSO understand why parents are a lot more concerned about them these days. Just calling people "stupid" over and over certainly doesn't help the problem and just feed your own ego which of course is selfish and has nothing at all to do with saving lives.
Edited to add that I was really surprised that Pediarix contains bovine cells and monkey kidney cells as well. Maybe that really means nothing in the end, but how many people are even aware those things are in it? There may be reasons why someone wouldn't want that injected into them. Also there's less risk of adverse reaction (an association between a form of the MMR vaccine containing the Urabe mumps strain and rare adverse events of aseptic meningitis, a form of viral meningitis.) with the Jeryl Lynn mumps strain but you know why many countries are still using the other strains? GUESS. "MMR with the Urabe strain is much cheaper to manufacture than with the Jeryl Lynn strain."
Also parents should know that risk of seizure is higher about 2 weeks after an MMR dose than when first given. Does any doctor bother informing about that? I sure wasn't told about it.
There you go. Now that really should make you stop and think just a little bit but maybe it won't. Maybe you don't care. I think apathy is worse than stupidity because with apathy you knowingly turn away from the truth.
The truth is that anti-vaxxers can't be dealt with by simply calling "stupid" and "idiot" and walking away smug in your own greatness. You have to find out WHY they are anti-vax and take care to build trust and confidence through truth even if the truth means you have to face the fact that yes, vaccines can cause all sorts of reactions and yes some do have monkey cells in them and yes some do increase risk of seizure etc. Because those ARE facts, not fictions. Pretending it doesn't exist and that every vaccine is a shot of sunshine and rainbows is morally wrong and dangerous.
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
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