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In a few threads on C-D recently, I've compared metro areas with more than one primary city. The definition I was using for a metro area is that is organic, that it can grow and contract, that it cannot be defined to exact limits, and it is not a statistically determined area, but an area based on perception. So your perception and mine can vastly different, but that does not automatically make either of us wrong.
So when I look at the following:
• Bay Area: San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose
• Twin Cities: Minneapolis, St. Paul
• Metroplex: Dallas, Ft. Worth
....I'm looking at three metro areas. And if you want to give Bloomington, MN, and Arlington, TX, major city status, that would hardly be a crazy thing to do.
The distance between Baltimore and Washington is tad above 40 miles. San Francisco and San Jose are close to being 50 miles apart. Obviously Baltimore and Washington are far closer to each other than SF and SJ, yet we are relatively comfortable with calling both San Francisco and San Jose "the Bay Area." You want proof: some 8.5 miles north of downtown San Jose (11 minutes according to my googling) you will find an NFL stadium. For a hint: it is not the home of the San Jose 49ers.
I don't view Baltimore/Washington in terms of metros with more than one primary city. I view Baltimore/Washington as exceedingly close metro areas. Actually the closest by far of any such comparison.
And few metro areas make that cut. The few could include...
• Chicago/Milwaukee
• Los Angeles/San Diego
• Philadelphia to either New York or Baltimore
WHY DO I CLASSIFY WASHINGTON AND BALTIMORE THE WAY I DO?
The east coast, the east coast of colonial roots, is just plain different. Looking at the northeast seaboard only makes it more different. And perhaps the most different from any place in the nation (by far) is the northeast corridor. And within it, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington are playing the game with completely different rules.
Strictly for the sake of argument: a distance of 25 miles anywhere in the northeast corridor = 100 miles anywhere else in the nation. Bowash is Europe, a place where vastly different nations are stuffed together very close to each other. A shade under 300 miles is the distance from London to Paris. For Chicagoans to travel to the capital city that they obviously own, that being Springfield, is a 300 mile drive.
Baltimore and Washington are not "one". They can't be. Along with the distance issue, the key fact on the table is this: Washington, DC, is our nation's capital. It is in no state. It is the only city in the nation that has stamped on its forehead what it is and what it does. Nothing is like it. If gambling became less important than it is and a minor pastime, Las Vegas would still go on but in a different form. Same for Orlando with themed parks. Detroit is not automobiles, Pittsburgh is not steel, and Los Angeles is no movie set.
That Baltimore came into existence long before Washington, that Baltimore was a colonial city and Washington was a productive of the US, that in colonial times, the only close "George" was not named for a president but for a king in the form of "Georgetown". Baltimore grew and developed into its own metro area and could do so in the context of the tightly packed northeast. Baltimore was and is its own place. Of course it will share those things that make sense when another city is close by (such as BWI), but it is a city/area with its own identity and Washington can not be grouped with anywhere else.
Baltimore, MD, and Washington, DC, are in my book two different metro areas
History. While Boston/Providence or Baltimore/Washington were independent cities for 100s of years that sprawled together SF/SJ and LA/the Inland Empire are suburban areas that eventually grew so big that commuting into the central city became such a hassle that jobs started moving to secondary locations.
So today even if there is equal commuter exchange between SJ/SF and Baltimore/Washington the former is a more cohesive cultural region.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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What is the obsession here? That’s what I’m not understanding. It seems to be from primarily outsiders on C-D who either don’t spend significant time in the B/W region, or from those who aren’t willing to accept the fact that DC-Baltimore will statistically be the 3rd largest CSA by the 2020 Census and incorrectly assume that ONLY DC is taking credit for this.
No one in the Baltimore-DC area cares this much about the topic outside of a couple of posters on this site who constantly feel the need to reiterate their dislike for one area.
It is VERY simple, if you go to the Combined Statistical Area definition on its wiki page there is a clear and concise definition of what that is. Washington-Baltimore have long been connected via commerce, commuting, and amenities, and they have long met that threshold to be considered a broader region of one. However, they are two relatively independent spheres on opposite ends of that broader metro with their own central cities, subway trains, and beltways with inner suburbs of their own. The area is geographically close enough to be considered one while still having much separate identities on the individual ends. It is as geographically close as SF/SJ and DFW yes. Is it culturally connected like those others, not as much, but there is a shared mid-Atlantic culture that spans the region.
There is no example of this in the US to be quite honest and the uniqueness is what I think boggles peoples minds.
Just let the 9 plus million people living in the DC-Baltimore region live, it’s truly not that serious to classify us that hard. We can each individually decide where we think we live.
Last edited by the resident09; 08-11-2019 at 09:11 AM..
What is the obsession here? That’s what I’m not understanding. It seems to be from primarily outsiders on C-D who either don’t spend significant time in the B/W region, or from those who aren’t willing to accept the fact that DC-Baltimore will statistically be the 3rd largest CSA by the 2020 Census and incorrectly assume that ONLY DC is taking credit for this.
No one in the Baltimore-DC area cares this much about the topic outside of a couple of posters on this site who constantly feel the need to reiterate their dislike for one area.
It is VERY simple, if you go to the Combined Statistical Area definition on its wiki page there is a clear and concise definition of what that is. Washington-Baltimore have long been connected via commerce, commuting, and amenities, and they have long met that threshold to be considered a broader region of one. However, they are two relatively independent spheres on opposite ends of that broader metro with their own central cities, subway trains, and beltways with inner suburbs of their own. The area is geographically close enough to be considered one while still having much separate identities on the individual ends. It is as geographically close as SF/SJ and DFW yes. Is it culturally connected like those others, not as much, but there is a shared mid-Atlantic culture that spans the region.
There is no example of this in the US to be quite honest and the uniqueness is what I think boggles peoples minds.
Just let the 9 plus million people living in the DC-Baltimore region live, it’s truly not that serious to classify us that hard. We can each individually decide where we think we live.
oh, gee, you're not interested in the discussion. I have an idea: opt out. Unless I am wrong, I thought this forum was labeled "City-Data" because people want to discuss urban issues.
I know I wrote a lot, but you apparently didn't read one word of it. You proved that when you wrote "t is VERY simple, if you go to the Combined Statistical Area definition on its wiki page there is a clear and concise definition of what that is."....which makes no sense what-so-ever since I went to great lengths to say I wasn't talking statistical or designated areas, I was talking about perceptions and that makes all valid.
Did you get the feeling that my issue focused mainly on Baltimore-Washington. That might be the case and I can understand why you might think so.
But you'd be wrong. The real reason I created the thread is for something we haven't discussed here:
why the region that was once British colonies, more specifically the northeast seaboard and most specifically the northeast corridor is just plain different. And a distance of 100 miles between two cities in other parts of the nation may be comparable with a distance of 25 in the northeast.
If you see my name starting a thread, do yourself a favor: opt out from the get go. You don't need my permission: start any thread you want if it interests you. I may or may not read in it...but I sure as hell won't tell you you never should have written it. Have a great day.
"We can each individually decide where we think we live." Yep, that is pretty much what I said in the original post. See, we are in agreement.
I see it more li ke aa Boston/Providence actually.
Close to eachother, in the same CSA but not MSA, similar but different in many ways, but unify together and completee achother.
I agree for the most part. The big difference here is that Boston has always been larger than Providence, whereas DC only passed Baltimore in the last 50-100 years or so.
But, yeah. To echo btown’s post above: the reason DC-Bal is different than SF-SJ is that San Jose’s growth and urbanization is a direct result of the growth and urbanization of SF and the rest of the Bay Area. It has no real history or identity outside of the Silicon Valley. On the other hand, Baltimore aggressively has history, accent, industries, foods, and culture that it doesn’t share with DC.
Last edited by Boston Shudra; 08-11-2019 at 03:22 PM..
I view Baltimore and DC as two separate distinct cities with their own culture, history, infrastructure, jobs.. basically own everything, that just happen to be close. People from the Baltimore area don't see us as one big area; its us and them: Baltimore and DC.
I don't know anyone who talks about this, thinks about it, or cares, honestly....EXCEPT those few posters who have harped on this in a previous thread. Trust me, no one outside of that area, knows or cares of they combine to form a large CSA...doesn't mean a hill of beans to the rest of us...unless you're one of those few. For a poster to get upset about it though, just means that he/she, doesn't agree with what you are saying. SO, to anyone living in the Baltimore or DC area, your CSA is just as important to us, as ours (wherever we live), is to you.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,565,972 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25
oh, gee, you're not interested in the discussion. I have an idea: opt out. Unless I am wrong, I thought this forum was labeled "City-Data" because people want to discuss urban issues.
I know I wrote a lot, but you apparently didn't read one word of it. You proved that when you wrote "t is VERY simple, if you go to the Combined Statistical Area definition on its wiki page there is a clear and concise definition of what that is."....which makes no sense what-so-ever since I went to great lengths to say I wasn't talking statistical or designated areas, I was talking about perceptions and that makes all valid.
Did you get the feeling that my issue focused mainly on Baltimore-Washington. That might be the case and I can understand why you might think so.
But you'd be wrong. The real reason I created the thread is for something we haven't discussed here:
why the region that was once British colonies, more specifically the northeast seaboard and most specifically the northeast corridor is just plain different. And a distance of 100 miles between two cities in other parts of the nation may be comparable with a distance of 25 in the northeast.
If you see my name starting a thread, do yourself a favor: opt out from the get go. You don't need my permission: start any thread you want if it interests you. I may or may not read in it...but I sure as hell won't tell you you never should have written it. Have a great day.
"We can each individually decide where we think we live." Yep, that is pretty much what I said in the original post. See, we are in agreement.
Baltimore and DC honestly are two cities surrounded by a bunch of larger counties. Many of those counties are all distinct even if they lean towards Baltimore or DC. Montgomery County is unique, PG is definitely unique, Charles, Calvert, Anne Arundel, Howard, and Frederick all have similarities but many differences in each, yet all of those counties bisect both Metro DC and Baltimore. The primary distinction that lies is between Baltimore city and its inner ring around it, vs DC and it’s inner ring around it. Outside of that the whole damn area is just a blob of contiguous suburbs.
I don’t necessarily get the point of the thread no because one thing should be obvious, Baltimore City and DC proper are to different cities. Their surrounding region however is much more complex.
Being from Maryland, they have always felt like 2 different cities. Even the suburbs feel different. Columbia and Laurel (and probably Annapolis too, although I'm not familiar with that city) are really where you feel the overlap, but overall DC and Baltimore lack a bond that most paired cities have. If you go to traditional Baltimore suburbs, they know very little about DC. The opposite is true too, although I find people in the DC suburbs are actually a little more familiar with Baltimore (they tend to at least visit more periodically). For example, if you watch Baltimore news, DC local news is never mentioned (and vice versa). In the Bay Area, whether you're in Oakland or San Fran, you will hear about "Bay Area" news.
It is really weird in how they are relatively close, yet feel so distinct. I say relatively because there is no real public transportation that connects them. The MARC goes from Baltimore to Union Station but it only has weekend hours and is slow. To get on I95 would take you a solid hour plus during normal traffic. The lack of public transportation connecting them could also create the separate feeling.
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