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There are a lot of good examples, and it's actually sad how prevalent this is in the USA.
I guess what I was getting at is that I have never seen anything that drastic without some sort of physical/psychological barrier that separates two areas ... a main street, highway, river, railroad tracks, etc. This is literally a side street that goes from boarded up houses and a boarded up corner store, some vacant lots, then a couple occupied but rougher looking duplexes to right next door, some well manicured brick apartments before you even reach South Moreland (which in this case could have been the barrier). But it's not a one side of a street vs. the other situation. That's what blew my mind because it goes from hood to suburbia in a matter of a property line or two.
Im looking at the area and it looks like Moreland which here is a wide 4 lane divided road acts as the primary demarcation line. Moreland itself still seems to feature downmarket apartments.
More so Mattapan Square and Milton or back in the day Mission Hill and Brookline.
Definitely true. Though the tougher parts of Mattapan are further away from the Milton line. Mattapan Square isn't gentrified, so to some people it may look like a big transition to suburban, upscale residential Milton just a few hundred feet away; but it's not the drastic change you'll see in other places. Nothing in Boston resembles the more run down parts of many of the rust belt cities.
Mattapan pop. 36â€5k . Child poverty is 35-40% . Population is 82% African American and 5% white.
Milton pop. 28k. Child poverty is in single digits and population is 70% white and 14% African American.
These two share less of a direct border
Lawrence MA and Andover/North Andover MA
LAWRENCE pop. 81 k. 82% Latino. Poverty 27%.
Andover pop. 36 k. Poverty 6%. 82% white and 4% Latino.
I’d also shout out Maplewood NJ (burb) and Irvington NJ (hood)
Southern New England has a bunch of them. I used to live in Andover so I'm very familiar with that one.
Brockton MA / Easton
Barrington RI / East Providence
Longmeadow MA / Springfield
Hartford CT / West Hartford
I'm in middle/upper middle class suburbia a mile and a half from the city line and first housing project. When each city & town runs their own public school systems and zoning pretty much kills high density housing in the suburbs, you get those abrupt transitions.
Definitely true. Though the tougher parts of Mattapan are further away from the Milton line. Mattapan Square isn't gentrified, so to some people it may look like a big transition to suburban, upscale residential Milton just a few hundred feet away; but it's not the drastic change you'll see in other places. Nothing in Boston resembles the more run down parts of many of the rust belt cities.
Ye but i think the actual stats of well being in mattapan plus the appearance of Mattapan square is enough to put it on the list. The worst parts of Mattapan are closer to Morton Street for sure (north mattapan)
Southern New England has a bunch of them. I used to live in Andover so I'm very familiar with that one.
Brockton MA / Easton
Barrington RI / East Providence
Longmeadow MA / Springfield
Hartford CT / West Hartford
I'm in middle/upper middle class suburbia a mile and a half from the city line and first housing project. When each city & town runs their own public school systems and zoning pretty much kills high density housing in the suburbs, you get those abrupt transitions.
Some of those transitions aren't that abrupt though. A few examples above are talking a transition within a quarter of a mile, or even a block or two. I can't think of too many places in New England where the change happens that fast. Mattapan Square to Miltion may be the closest. You can see the impact of different zoning laws on the Fall River/Freetown Line pretty easily too - This is the first thing you see in Fall River, and this is Freetown, just a few feet away. The Fall River setup is not exactly "hood," but it's not high end/single family either.
If we're talking purely urban to suburban, Euston St. in Boston is one of my favorite. This is the best spot, right on the Boston/Brookline line looking towards Boston. Rotate 180 degrees, and it's a completely different world. Zoning is an interesting animal.
I wonder how safe the part of Grosse Pointe immediately bordering Detroit is, if Detroit criminals like to target that area, or if the police protect that neighborhood very well so the point that the criminal element from the city is afraid to cross the line, pun intended!!!
It's really weird there. On the Detroit side of Mack Ave and north/west of there you have gas stations where the attendant is behind bulletproof glass, there are vacant houses literally falling down, and just a general sense of unease. Immediately south/east of it in Grosse Pointe, you have smiling middle aged dads mowing the lawn or playing with their kids in the front yard, women in yoga pants going for a stroll, people walking their dogs, etc.
Even just playing around on Google Maps will give you an idea. Go to Alter Rd/Charlevoix St and you can see exactly where the city limits change.
Nonetheless, IMO it's probably more of an economic issue than a crime one.
I've spent some time with family in Grosse Pointe Park just a couple blocks from the Detroit line. It's like night and day. You can have your kids play in the street within a few minutes of no-man's land.
They turned most of the side streets into dead ends, only the bigger streets are still through traffic and the cops got their eyes big time on those. At least that's how it was back then. Not sure if that line is more porous these days as the cops themselves have a lot more eyes on them now.
I wasn't aware of them blocking off streets on that side of town. There's usually a small handful of houses that still require service/access, despite most of the blocks being abandoned.
Then again, I haven't been on that side of town since my visit home last year.
My mom (born 1954) was born and raised on Detroit's lower east side. *ALL* of the places whete she lived / hung out are nothing more than rubble and urban prairie now, and she was around to witness the slow/steady decline & destruction.
Last edited by citidata18; 10-23-2019 at 01:14 PM..
Though on second thought, the change from the bougie, gentrified parts of the South End to Methadone Mile is probably the quickest and most drastic economic transition in the Boston area, imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
Boston’s hood look pretty comparable to DCs... more so on the side streets than the main streets. That being said Mattapan Square looks very hood by any definition. It’s literally only dollar stores and liquor stores in old squat brick building with dirty sidewalks and litter...now Milton to Lower Mills is a different story.
Also the Lawrence to Andover is a more drastic change than Lowell to Andover.
Lawrence to Andover / north Andover is pretty abrupt but it depends on which way you travel. I think the most is if you get off the highway on exit 44 you can basically take a left or a right. If you take a right you're here
Naturally the pan handlers are always the left side of the road. However the mill buildings you see in pic 1 have been renovated and turned into lofts since then and the change is considerably less jarring as a result of that.
I think that from a visual perspective the milton / mattapan transition is the most abrupt even compared to the South End. You pretty much have five long blocks from Tremont to Melnea cass where the transition takes place. It's extremely common to see homeless / addicts on any of these blocks sleeping on stoops or milling about in general despite the high rents in the neighborhood.
There is also a decent amount of violent crime from the projects on Camden and Shawmut (at least during the time I lived in that area some years ago) which effects everything SE of Tremont.
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