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Paterson NJ
Bridgeport CT
Chester PA
Central Falls RI
Lawrence MA
Newburgh NY
if you want what you really say you want this should do it.Super not trendy/gentrified but also near major economic engines and still cities in their own right.
The idea cities had so much more “soul” in like 1987 is just not true.
Boston was a collection of Faux Irish Pubs and payday loan places in 1987. And that’s broadly true about s lot of cities. Most cities are a lot more diverse and dynamic now than then.
Not wanting to move somewhere because “everyone is doing it” makes you more of a hipster than anyone you have contempt for in those other towns. Like if Boston/DC/SD/Seattle/SF are too expensive or too big whatever there are tons of valid reasons to not want to live there but “other people like it” is a dumb reason not to like anything.
I'd definitely recommend places like Pittsburgh, PA, Omaha, NE, Jacksonville, FL, St Louis, MO, Cleveland, OH, or Milwaukee, WI, etc.
Nashville definitely has a bit of the celebrity/star seeking type of folks, along with those trying to chase the coolest, most "in" type of thing. Any city with a celebrity/music/tv/movie type of industry in it is most likely going to have a group of folks who are trying to be the "coolest." Think of cities like Nashville, LA, Atlanta, Austin, San Fran, NYC, Miami, etc.
I totally get what you mean though, and I think cities that do not cater to these types of industries might be your best bet.
SteelCityRising covered Pittsburgh well. The only other one of this list that I'm really familiar with (though I've been to all) is Omaha. It, like Pittsburgh, has its "hipster" areas. It has the "Old Market" downtown, with horse drawn carriage rides and all that. Nice, but pretty hipster-ish. My husband is from there; his family did not live in any area that is even now hipster-ish. In fact, his old 'hood is about what the OP wants, but there's plenty of the other there, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCityIsBetterThanYours
Just spitballing here but these are the areas that come to mind.
Knoxsville, Greenville SC, Richmond, Winston Salem, Des Moines, KC, Cincy, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Philly, Grand Rapids, St Paul MN, Birmingham, Huntsville, Pensacola, Sarasota, Tucson, El Paso, Portland ME, Burlington VT, Albany/Troy, Rochester/Buffalo
Seriously? I don't know how they stand themselves there; they're so "perfect".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveling Mike
Rapid City South Dakota or Omaha I’d advise the op to stick with smaller metro areas Anything 1 million or and up these days is going to have at least a touch of the yuppie vibe.
No pikabike, the difference is they pretend to be cool, I actually am cool I was cool before being cool was cool
BostonBornMassMade, my grandmother actually moved to Newburgh, NY from Brooklyn when she was younger and told me about growing up there in the 30s and 40s. Would be so strange if I ended up moving there.. Unfortunately, with NY state's strict gun laws and high taxes it will never be a reality. But, I would love to visit New York. I have family there and most of my extended family originated there when they came to this country, including my mother who was born in Brooklyn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmanshouse
Very interesting topic and I can totally relate.
My advice is to look for a sense of place, something that "trends" can't really change. Thus, I think you want something older, with bite, or a place where the culture is dominated by something palatable to you. Any city with lots of transplants, like Dallas, Phoenix, Denver, Austin, etc. are going to evolve into trendy enclaves that cater to a wide audience. You want to avoid this. You want to find a city with a culture you like, that mostly stays the same and doesn't attract tons of migration.
Chicago: I live here, so I can tell you it has a sense of place, and some neighborhoods you would love for their authenticity, but others you'd hate because they are doing what you don't want them to do. And there are a lot of nickel/dime rules and fines for things here mostly for revenue. So while I think you'd like it more than a Denver, it's not your ideal. You could to worse, or better.
Milwaukee: This feels more like your speed. Wisconsin has a unique culture that is very consistent over time, very much a red/blue mix, non-pretentious. It's an underrated city - nothing too spectacular, but a lot of pride here. Yes, it's cold. I think this is the perfect city for you if you can get over the winters.
Albuquerque: This is another city that doesn't follow trends. And while it leans blue, it's not overly liberal. You've got a Native American meets old west/keep traditions alive element, mixed with a modern university. I'd check this place out - feels like a good fit.
Other potentials....
St. Louis, Kansas City, Cincinnati
Interesting points and descriptions of cities you mention Kmanshouse. I have to say I always liked the people I met from Wisconsin. THey seem friendly , warm and seem to host all the Midwest values people look for in Midwesterners. My best friend in Idaho actually was from Wisconsin and he would shovel my driveway and roof and pretty much help the entire neighborhood during the blizzard. He was retired and had all types of gear and was a real Good Samaritan. He basically forced me into becoming a Green Bay fan, but it wasn't bad as he invited me over for free food and beer and I was never loyal to any NFL team anyway. He would die for his time I could see. Sadly, I just doubt I could survive the winters .. The winters in Idaho and Colorado already were almost unbearable and Wisconsin I would probably just keel over and die from cold exhaustion. As well I just couldn't keep up with roof shoveling and all snow maintenance in -30F weather. Not for me. Maybe, if I get wealthy and want a nice Summer home? Wisconsin is the place? Lot of nice nature up there, even if there are no mountains. I'd definitely like to check out Milwaukee and see a city that I hear does have remnants of the old 1980s Portland being an industrial city on the water. I'm sure the two were never quite a like though.
However, I am interested in the other cities you mention. It seems like Cincinnati is really on the upswing. Do you have any opinions about Columbus, OH? It has one of the best tech markets in the former Rust Belt and I Hear is a pretty desirable city, yet not overwhelmed by the new-age hipster/yuppie ego as the other successful and growing cities.
I actually was interested in Kansas City, but one thing about KC , as with St. Louis is the crime rate is quite high. I found Kansas City to be quite scenic and spent a short amount of time there; mostly, staying at hotels while passing through. However, after that long arduous drive through Kansas it was pretty intriguing to hit the Flint HIlls and then see scenery of rolling hills and it was very green and lush. The people there have some kind of wholesome quality and I hear the city is growing quickly too. Don't know how well a Midwestern city like Kansas CIty would cater to single professional older guy . I have learned in the South and in many rural areas that people marry quite young and outside of the urban core you pretty much are on your own, especially if you are not a churchgoer. And, if the urban core doesn't suit you, you are out of luck. I've been trying to have fun in Mt. Juliet and Lebanon (suburb of Nashville), but finding even a bar open that is not full of scary/dicey people past 9PM or not swarming with cops ready to pull anyone over who gets on the road past 11PM is a real chore. Even Murfreesboro, a sizable city outside of Nashville is like a ghost town outside of the weekend, which is so weird for a large college town. I notice the downtown when I was there was just swarming with cops and the bars were deserted.
Unfortunately, in a place like Nashville I have both extremes, very religious and family oriented suburbs, but an urban core that is quite elitist and actually the demographic that is very young and pretty pretentious if you are outside of the ritzy or suburban neighborhoods like Green Hills, Belle Meade, etc. I'd say cities like Seattle, Portland and Denver (only in the city, suburbs are dreadfully boring) and obviously big cities like NY, LA, SF, Miami, etc definitely cater more to single professional types. But, these are not places I would want to live at all because of the above mentioned topic of my post.. They also insanely expensive and really more crowded than I would like. But, that is why I worry about living in a places like Omaha, Huntsville or any of these smaller cities or pretty much very large towns. Small towns as a whole will always usually be more genuine and wholesome, although sometimes provincial and not so welcoming to outsiders. As well, they are not what I would call "Cities". They may have nice qualities to them, but I guess I also need to be able to make a living and have a means of having a social life as a fairly conservative, non-Christian single male in his 40s. Kansas City, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Cincinnati, etc are larger cities and places I think could offer the amenities I need in addition to the social atmosphere and mindset I desire.
Another city that despite a reputation for being very uppity and pretentious by Canadians, that I actually liked and found to be pretty friendly was Vancouver, BC. But, that is in the wrong country.. I really love that city and was shocked about how easy going, cheery and friendly the locals were. The scenery of Vancouver captivated my heart and being a Cascadian (native Oregonian) that part of the Cascades definitely amazed me. It is the one example of an affluent city that has lot of money and popularity, yet seems to have retained some kind of identity, culture and the people are genuinely friendly on average.
BTW, just because a place appears to be a bit hipstery or new-agey, doesn't mean the people are always bad. I found hipsterish people I met in Tampa (despite their attire) to be friendly, outgoing and not have the douchey attitude I would find in places like Seattle, Portland, Nashville or Denver. ALthough, hipsterfication/yuppification/gentrification brings a lot of these negative traits to a city, I would say some cities have managed to retain some of their values, manners and culture despite the appearances or fashion trends. I made friends with a rather hipsterish looking guy in Tampa and he actually was very down-to-earth, friendly and actually seemed rather conservative and politically incorrect. Maybe, that is why we made friends Yet, he still into all the funky hipstery kind of things. Attitude is more important than anything.
Last edited by RotseCherut; 11-26-2019 at 11:12 AM..
Most people in Portland (or Seattle, Denver, Nashville or anywhere) don't care about being trendy or gentrification nor are they pretentious nor hipster. I too grew up in Portland and miss the old vibe but all in all I think the city has become a much better city. The city had way too many parking lots and I don't mind a little densification in the right places. After all, 95% of the city area is unchanged and still SFH. The homeless situation is my main gripe with Portland and any other interesting city. Probably more a national issue than a local issue though but that is a topic for a different forum.
You mention looking for the grass being greener elsewhere. You're blessed to have lived in some of the US's most interesting mid-sized cities which are kind of the sweet spot between amenities/hassle. You're not one of the cool kids any more like you were in the 90s and it sounds like your lifestyle puts you in proximity to people who are.
I doubt moving will solve your problems, at least how you've formulated them here. Most of us in our 40's have settled down and don't give a hoot about hipsters or trendyness or the third of the local populace (most people in Portland are moderate, same as anywhere else) who's politics differs from ours and potentially irritates us. Having kids really forces one to change one's perspective on things. Maybe having kids and all that is not in the cards for you but if you can try to change your perspective without moving again it might be beneficial.
If you do decide to move the US is full of interested blue-collar cities which meet your criteria (except for maybe weather) and given the strong job market pretty much every where now is a great time to move. I'd probably choose Richmond, Pittsburgh, Cleveland or Des Moines. Good luck!
No pikabike, the difference is they pretend to be cool, I actually am cool I was cool before being cool was cool
BostonBornMassMade, my grandmother actually moved to Newburgh, NY from Brooklyn when she was younger and told me about growing up there in the 30s and 40s. Would be so strange if I ended up moving there.. Unfortunately, with NY state's strict gun laws and high taxes it will never be a reality. But, I would love to visit New York. I have family there and most of my extended family originated there when they came to this country, including my mother who was born in Brooklyn.
Interesting points and descriptions of cities you mention Kmanshouse. I have to say I always liked the people I met from Wisconsin. THey seem friendly , warm and seem to host all the Midwest values people look for in Midwesterners. My best friend in Idaho actually was from Wisconsin and he would shovel my driveway and roof and pretty much help the entire neighborhood during the blizzard. He was retired and had all types of gear and was a real Good Samaritan. He basically forced me into becoming a Green Bay fan, but it wasn't bad as he invited me over for free food and beer and I was never loyal to any NFL team anyway. He would die for his time I could see. Sadly, I just doubt I could survive the winters .. The winters in Idaho and Colorado already were almost unbearable and Wisconsin I would probably just keel over and die from cold exhaustion. As well I just couldn't keep up with roof shoveling and all snow maintenance in -30F weather. Not for me. Maybe, if I get wealthy and want a nice Summer home? Wisconsin is the place? Lot of nice nature up there, even if there are no mountains. I'd definitely like to check out Milwaukee and see a city that I hear does have remnants of the old 1980s Portland being an industrial city on the water. I'm sure the two were never quite a like though.
However, I am interested in the other cities you mention. It seems like Cincinnati is really on the upswing. Do you have any opinions about Columbus, OH? It has one of the best tech markets in the former Rust Belt and I Hear is a pretty desirable city, yet not overwhelmed by the new-age hipster/yuppie ego as the other successful and growing cities.
I actually was interested in Kansas City, but one thing about KC , as with St. Louis is the crime rate is quite high. I found Kansas City to be quite scenic and spent a short amount of time there; mostly, staying at hotels while passing through. However, after that long arduous drive through Kansas it was pretty intriguing to hit the Flint HIlls and then see scenery of rolling hills and it was very green and lush. The people there have some kind of wholesome quality and I hear the city is growing quickly too. Don't know how well a Midwestern city like Kansas CIty would cater to single professional older guy . I have learned in the South and in many rural areas that people marry quite young and outside of the urban core you pretty much are on your own, especially if you are not a churchgoer. And, if the urban core doesn't suit you, you are out of luck. I've been trying to have fun in Mt. Juliet and Lebanon (suburb of Nashville), but finding even a bar open that is not full of scary/dicey people past 9PM or not swarming with cops ready to pull anyone over who gets on the road past 11PM is a real chore. Even Murfreesboro, a sizable city outside of Nashville is like a ghost town outside of the weekend, which is so weird for a large college town. I notice the downtown when I was there was just swarming with cops and the bars were deserted.
Unfortunately, in a place like Nashville I have both extremes, very religious and family oriented suburbs, but an urban core that is quite elitist and actually the demographic that is very young and pretty pretentious if you are outside of the ritzy or suburban neighborhoods like Green Hills, Belle Meade, etc. I'd say cities like Seattle, Portland and Denver (only in the city, suburbs are dreadfully boring) and obviously big cities like NY, LA, SF, Miami, etc definitely cater more to single professional types. But, these are not places I would want to live at all because of the above mentioned topic of my post.. They also insanely expensive and really more crowded than I would like. But, that is why I worry about living in a places like Omaha, Huntsville or any of these smaller cities or pretty much very large towns. Small towns as a whole will always usually be more genuine and wholesome, although sometimes provincial and not so welcoming to outsiders. As well, they are not what I would call "Cities". They may have nice qualities to them, but I guess I also need to be able to make a living and have a means of having a social life as a fairly conservative, non-Christian single male in his 40s. Kansas City, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Cincinnati, etc are larger cities and places I think could offer the amenities I need in addition to the social atmosphere and mindset I desire.
Another city that despite a reputation for being very uppity and pretentious by Canadians, that I actually liked and found to be pretty friendly was Vancouver, BC. But, that is in the wrong country.. I really love that city and was shocked about how easy going, cheery and friendly the locals were. The scenery of Vancouver captivated my heart and being a Cascadian (native Oregonian) that part of the Cascades definitely amazed me. It is the one example of an affluent city that has lot of money and popularity, yet seems to have retained some kind of identity, culture and the people are genuinely friendly on average.
BTW, just because a place appears to be a bit hipstery or new-agey, doesn't mean the people are always bad. I found hipsterish people I met in Tampa (despite their attire) to be friendly, outgoing and not have the douchey attitude I would find in places like Seattle, Portland, Nashville or Denver. ALthough, hipsterfication/yuppification/gentrification brings a lot of these negative traits to a city, I would say some cities have managed to retain some of their values, manners and culture despite the appearances or fashion trends. I made friends with a rather hipsterish looking guy in Tampa and he actually was very down-to-earth, friendly and actually seemed rather conservative and politically incorrect. Maybe, that is why we made friends Yet, he still into all the funky hipstery kind of things. Attitude is more important than anything.
I am a 50 yo single male living in Downtown St. Louis. I love the city for what it has to offer. I personally think it is barely the right size to have the stores, amenities and lifestyle offerings I like but small enough for easy living.
St. Louis has so many layers to its urban culture that most urban types can find what they are looking for. Therefore, it is not over run by hipsters. If you are looking for love it can be difficult over 30. OTOH, I found it very easy to socialize, find traveling friends and any other hobby friends. That does change when you get into the more established suburbs in St. Louis county and beyond.
How can you know what a city’s residents are like when you work 70+ hrs per week? When you don’t get out and about that much even if you do have free time?
I worry about living in a places like Omaha, Huntsville or any of these smaller cities or pretty much very large towns. Small towns as a whole will always usually be more genuine and wholesome, although sometimes provincial and not so welcoming to outsiders.
Huntsville (and Greenville SC) are small cities but they are also boom towns. So they are not exactly provincial because there are so many newcomers.
Paterson NJ
Bridgeport CT
Chester PA
Central Falls RI
Lawrence MA
Newburgh NY
if you want what you really say you want this should do it.Super not trendy/gentrified but also near major economic engines and still cities in their own right.
Paterson?!?!?
Has it gentrified? People were getting their HVAC systems stolen right out of their homes while at work. One guy had his hot water tank stolen while he was at work. They broken into his basement.
I remember riding on the train and seeing homes falling apart all along the track on the Main line as soon as it got near Paterson.
I think you nailed it with this post David!! Wish I could rep you 10 times for this post! Already repped you on another, so I cannot even rep you for this one.
You basically have summarized everything that I have been trying to convey and about the dilemma that many of the new-age HIP/TRENDY and GENTRIFIED cities have encountered. What you describe about Denver is exactly what happened to both Portland and Seattle. Yes, some may claim it is progress and now the cities have less crime, are more affluent and now they are just so much "cooler", "hipper" and you can get fufu your chihuahua a nice sweater while you sip overpriced lattes before your session at your corporate yoga studio.
Yes, some claim this is progress and hipness, but to me and for you and others who remember these cities back in the day, this is the death of the soul of our beloved cities. Yes, there was more crime, but there was more soul, a sense of community and a pulse that gave the place life and a sense of being. Along with the grit came the glory. I wish I had more time to go into this deeper, but you have expressed most of my feelings. To me these places are the anti-thesis of everything they claim to be. A facade of progress, diversity and sophistication that is really a hollow shell of a neighborhood. They are the very product of what they think they aren't. A complete eradication of the community, its soul, heart and spirit. The beautiful buildings, the small family owned businesses, including restaurants and typical mom and pop shops, the culture, way of life and character each neighborhood had. Some neighborhoods had distinct ethnic groups and others an identity that made them an entity unto themselves.
To quote Jerry Garcia, Nothing is Shaking on Shakedown Street. This use to be the heart town. Don't tell me this town ain't got no heart. It is like what I see in many of these hoods that have been transformed into these uppity, pretentious, clean, trendy, high class yuppie/hipster neighborhoods. What use to be a neighborhood that had community, a lifestyle and a sense of being is now occupied by high minded people with no care of where they are what the place was. Many care only about the same creature comforts or amenities they had where they previously came from. They want to turn every place they go into their own yuppie/hipster utopia and will the crush the soul of any who challenge the agenda. Yes, they need their fancy high end stores that all basically offer the same stuff for more money and have the respected corporate logos.
Not saying all "hipsters" or "yuppies" are bad or everything hipster is wrong. There are definitely different groups of people who may look similar, but have different culture and mindset . But, there just seems to be a trend of everywhere and a mentality I find very sickening. The mentality is very much EVERY MAN FOR THEMSELVES and everyone thinks they are better than everyone else. It is not a place where every person cares for their fellow citizen and community.
Wish I could explain my feelings better, but you really summarized it. I really think I would have liked the older Denver back in the day and I can see why some of locals get provincial when outsiders come in with all their demands and "new ideas". I was the same way about Portland when all the people started moving in hordes. The Denver, Seattle and Portland of the 90s and earlier didn't have all the fancy amenities to accommodate the hip/trendy/cool, more grit and problems, but they had more life and a soul that doesn't exist any more.
To be honest, I think Seattle, Portland and Denver use to be cool, but now they are quite lame and anything but cool. In addition, to the increasing radical liberalness and political correctness, now the bleeding hearts want homeless people colonize the streets and Portland and Seattle have a homeless and drug crisis never seen before. There may have been more gang warfare in bad neighborhoods, but you didn't have the large amounts of homeless and drug addicts camping all over the city either. It's a weird mix of gentrification coupled with self-destructive political correctness. In addition to the lack of character, personality, soul and life-blood, you have a crazy mismanaged bureaucratic city government who tries to reap the benefits all the new money and take advantage of people. Many of the people who move to Seattle and Portland are furious they cannot afford it and now trying to vote a politician in to "fix it". Not to mention all the invaders, err, I mean transplants, now are voting to fix the entire state with all the great laws they had that turned their home state into a craphole. I remember how the Californians and others I meet would mock Oregonians as such "backward people". They say, "oh, don't leave the city, those people outside are such backward people". It always made my blood boil and infuriated me the mentality of some of the outsiders who moved to Oregon. Oh man, I can go on, but it is a whole other subject I rather not dive into.
I guess I will never find a replica, but to find another place that yet has not succumb to the invasion of outsiders and the resulting gentrification would be desired. Yes, you got to accept some of the flaws, but the new Seattle and Portland have flaws of their own that the old one didn't have.
Some interesting articles that native Oregonians/Portlanders feel about the Old Portland compared to the new. You will not find many native Oregonians who like what is happening in Portland today:
Yeah, I feel like a lot of culture has moved to the very ends of the city, suburbs, or cities in the metro area, at least in the case of Seattle. Tacoma has a sense of community, and is more laid back/ has a lot of charm. It still experiences the same problems as Seattle (on a smaller scale) but it hasn't lost soul, it's gaining soul. White Center is another place that has seen some transformation. q ueer establishments have been opening up there, as a lot of q ueer people have been priced out of Capitol Hill and in fact, many of Capitol Hill's q ueer establishments are now on the market and will probably be turned in to corporate housing at 1700 for a studio with trendy shops beneath. Anyway, it's all so interesting because in both cases (Tacoma/ White Center), these are historically diverse and low income places and the former residents are being pushed out which is also unjustified. It starts at the top and eventually turns into homelessness. I'm at least thankful that Sawant was reelected in district 3, and that Tacoma has been making some very progressive moves.
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Think of cities like Nashville, LA, Atlanta, Austin, San Fran, NYC, Miami, etc. 
I was cool before being cool was cool 
Wish I could rep you 10 times for this post! Already repped you on another, so I cannot even rep you for this one.
