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Okay? I mean in terms of latitude Texas is the second most southern continental state, so it'd be pretty stupid if it wasn't "the south"! But culturally, demographically, geographically, climatically, I don't see Texas being all that similar to the southeast, and I think there is a much bigger delta between Texas and Louisiana than there is between VA and NC or GA.
Like I live further away from Atlanta than Foamposite does (I'm 930 miles away), so it's funny hearing how I'm supposedly clearly in the same region, but he's probably three "regions" over in his mind. Ok, whatever.
Ok buddy. You guys are west coast/northeast hybrid culturally
Right, so NoVa makes Virginia less Southern than far West Texas does to Texas
What is it about NoVa that makes it not southern? That it's a urban with transplants? Like Texas doesn't have that?..
I get the "it's the south because it's the south, the end" argument. It's pointless and derivative, but I get it. However if we are going that route then certainly it applies to Virginia, which is the ultimate OG when it comes to being southern...
You really can't say Texas is southern for several reasons: 1`. Mexico/Latino influence which was not evident to the east of Texas.
2.The discovery of oil in large amounts in the early 1900s, a resource no other state had and changed the influence of the state.
3. Cattle ranching of significant size;
4. Post WWII, much higher immigration that other southern states from Asia and Africa 5. Stronger ties to western states.
1. So what about Florida? They have a pretty strong Latino influence.
4. Stronger ties to western states? I think that depends on what part of the State. And exactly what ties do you speak of?
Quote:
Originally Posted by whereiend
I don't buy that personally. What are the distinct cultural aspects of "modern Virginia"?
Texas in comparison to the southeast has completely different food, different demographics, different landscapes, different climate, different music, different traditional industries and economies, etc. VA has more in common with NC than Texas does with Louisiana.
How? I can see VA and NC having a lot in common in the more rural and smaller areas close to the border. If we're comparing the urban areas of each state I don't think they have much in common at all.
There's nothing like NOVA in NC. Raleigh-Durham don't feel anything like Richmond besides being similar size cities. There's no Charlotte in VA. The 7 cities have no comparison to any metro area in NC. Winston-Salem is probably the closest area in NC that culturally feels like Southwest Virginia.
And even with the shared Appalachia region in both states border areas and the Tidewater region in NC/VA I'll put money on it that those 2 regions in NC/VA don't have as much of a close relationship as TX/LA.
Northeast Texas for example shares an actual region with Northwest Louisiana and Southwest Arkansas. It's called Ark-la-tex. I put money on it that region is stronger than any region in NC/VA. Also you have the Golden triangle/Southwest Louisiana region that are damn near identical in every way imaginable.
Houston also has strong Louisiana roots as well. I don't think you can say the same for any city in NC/VA. Does Charlotte or Raleigh-Durham have strong roots of each other? Was their migration to these cities from either state like it was to Houston?
Exactly what part of TX did you live in? I understand saying Austin, San Antonio, Fort Worth, Hill Country, and Central Texas don't have much in common with Louisiana. But everything East of DFW all the way down to San Antonio/South Texas has much more in common and interaction with Louisiana than anything in VA/NC.
I find those viewing Texas as strongly southern generally ignore the Mexican/ Latino influences in the US. Texas, NM and Arizona as well as southern CA and Utah and Colorado and even Nevada have a heritage strongly influence by this south of the border cultures. I like the south if I were to move I'd move to a more southern state if I left Tx / Ok.
I've had summer jobs in New Orleans, Beaumont and Idaho. I grew up in little dixie part of Oklahoma. I attended college in northern Oklahoma. I lived and worked post college in Pittsburgh and NYC metro. Additionally I worked full time half a year living out of a suit case in Fairfax VA.
My observations from this living experienced are: 1) living in Houston in the early 1970s Houston felt more southern to me than any part of Oklahoma. 2) living in Pittsburgh felt different than any where I'd lived but they called themselves Midwesterners like I considered myself from Oklahoma and Houston living. I'd called them NE 'erners at that time perhaps I was more southern than I knew it felt. (Grand parents lived in middle Tennessee so I thought I knew what was deep south was and knew I wasn't that.) 3). Liked visiting middle Tennessee and active duty army in Kentucky and Petersburg VA.. 4) Fairfax suit case living felt like Houston living in the 80's and 90's. 5) living past 11 years in Plano the culture feels similar to Houston but different from Oklahoma and second home living near Taos NM. 6) archeologist of the SW USA claim figuring out Chaco ruins in NM was confused until they looked to cultures in that period in Mexico.
I feel many posters and Americans diminish in Mexican / Latino cultures influences on some areas.
The only place in Florida that doesn't feel southern is Miami, but as you and I have both said, the south isn't some homogenous culture, there are differences, ie I mentioned New Orleans and Augusta above.
And whether you think so or not, a lot of Texans do think they're too good to be associated with the south as everything is bigger there right? I don't really get trying to distance yourself from the south. You're not the great plains, you're not east coast. You're the south, and you know what, that's ok to.
But even then, inland Miami has plenty of spots that look and feel typical Southern. Miami's roots are Southern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walker1962
You really can't say Texas is southern for several reasons:
1`. Mexico/Latino influence which was not evident to the east of Texas.
2.The discovery of oil in large amounts in the early 1900s, a resource no other state had and changed the influence of the state.
3. Cattle ranching of significant size;
4. Post WWII, much higher immigration that other southern states from Asia and Africa
5. Stronger ties to western states.
Man this makes no sense. So because a state has had immigrants from another country move in, that means it's no longer Southern?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhw2
I find those viewing Texas as strongly southern generally ignore the Mexican/ Latino influences in the US. Texas, NM and Arizona as well as southern CA and Utah and Colorado and even Nevada have a heritage strongly influence by this south of the border cultures. I like the south if I were to move I'd move to a more southern state if I left Tx / Ok.
I've had summer jobs in New Orleans, Beaumont and Idaho. I grew up in little dixie part of Oklahoma. I attended college in northern Oklahoma. I lived and worked post college in Pittsburgh and NYC metro. Additionally I worked full time half a year living out of a suit case in Fairfax VA.
My observations from this living experienced are: 1) living in Houston in the early 1970s Houston felt more southern to me than any part of Oklahoma. 2) living in Pittsburgh felt different than any where I'd lived but they called themselves Midwesterners like I considered myself from Oklahoma and Houston living. I'd called them NE 'erners at that time perhaps I was more southern than I knew it felt. (Grand parents lived in middle Tennessee so I thought I knew what was deep south was and knew I wasn't that.) 3). Liked visiting middle Tennessee and active duty army in Kentucky and Petersburg VA.. 4) Fairfax suit case living felt like Houston living in the 80's and 90's. 5) living past 11 years in Plano the culture feels similar to Houston but different from Oklahoma and second home living near Taos NM. 6) archeologist of the SW USA claim figuring out Chaco ruins in NM was confused until they looked to cultures in that period in Mexico.
I feel many posters and Americans diminish in Mexican / Latino cultures influences on some areas.
This long post was more for me thinking out loud.
Ask a Mexican who grew up in Houston what part of the country they are from and I guarantee you they will say they are Southern/from the South. I know plenty and they will tell you they ARE NOT from the Southwest. And besides, Texas Mexicans are different than California Mexicans for example. Even the way some dishes are prepared is different. Not all Mexicans are created equal. Same goes for other Latinos/other Hispanics (only using Mexicans since they're the largest group in the states you named). So to try to say just because a lot from a certain country moved in takes away from the root culture is just not what I've found to be the case in reality. If anything, they take on/adopt the culture if they're new immigrants.
Ask a Mexican who grew up in Houston what part of the country they are from and I guarantee you they will say they are Southern/from the South. I know plenty and they will tell you they ARE NOT from the Southwest. And besides, Texas Mexicans are different than California Mexicans for example. Even the way some dishes are prepared is different. Not all Mexicans are created equal. Same goes for other Latinos/other Hispanics (only using Mexicans since they're the largest group in the states you named).
It's a C-D thing. Floridians, Texans, non-Nova Virginians in real life all have no issues saying they're from the south. If you have a football team in the SEC, you're pretty southern. If your state fought for slavery, you're southern. Sorry. Not sorry.
It's a C-D thing. Floridians, Texans, non-Nova Virginians in real life all have no issues saying they're from the south. If you have a football team in the SEC, you're pretty southern. If your state fought for slavery, you're southern. Sorry. Not sorry.
People get too into the "data" part and not the real life experience "city" part.
Texas is considerably more Southern than modern Virginia
Absolutely 100% do not agree with this. Outside of NOVA, Virginia is just as Southern as any other Southern state. In fact, while I feel that NOVA's Southerness has been diluted over the past few decades, the remnants are definitely still there and can't ignore history. But Virginia (most of it) is just as Southern as Texas.
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