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Old 01-05-2020, 11:19 AM
 
452 posts, read 148,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellside High View Post
Speaking strictly about accents, I have been to both OKC and Tulsa on several occasions over the years and to my Western ears at least (Colorado), they sound definitively southern to me, and I've lived in the South (Arkansas) Also when I casually speak to people there, they automatically ask me what part of the West (coast) im from, as in, I sound nothing like them, and they can easily identify that I'm an outsider. Also used to live in Southern California, and they had no idea I wasn't from there until I told them.
The original Okie accent has Southern roots at it's origin, but as it was mentioned, there're a lot of people without this accent or it's very weak. I didn't really meet any single person speaking with anything resembling Southern accent in OK to me, but I was coming straight from the South, where accents are strong so contrast is striking. As you were coming to OK from the West, you might hear more of a Southern twang as you're comparing with more Western speech. If one goes down I-40, coming from Fort Smith area into OK, towards Sallisaw etc, 100% feels like leaving the South and suddenly everything seems either Western or Plains. A lot of Okies moved to California bringing the very subtle accent you may hear in Eastern or Central CA, with every 8th person in CA having this heritage, so by the same token one may say that California, especially Eastern CA is "Southern" because of the heritage. Actually, I'd lived in a town in Sierra Nevada/CA that was nicknamed "Little Ozarks" by some.
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
7,799 posts, read 6,684,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellside High View Post
Speaking strictly about accents, I have been to both OKC and Tulsa on several occasions over the years and to my Western ears at least (Colorado), they sound definitively southern to me, and I've lived in the South (Arkansas) Also when I casually speak to people there, they automatically ask me what part of the West (coast) im from, as in, I sound nothing like them, and they can easily identify that I'm an outsider. Also used to live in Southern California, and they had no idea I wasn't from there until I told them.
This is interesting. I grew up in Oklahoma and I could hear various accents while growing up. If you heard somebody who was truly southern in accent (say Reba Mcentire) you certainly noticed it. And others you didn't.

I then moved to the west and over time when I would call or go home I noticed a southern or at least Okie twang from people I had known and never noticed it before.

From the west (Arizona) I moved to Gainesville, and then Tallahassee, Fl. When I would talk to these same people back in Oklahoma after I moved to Florida, I didn't notice any southern accent anymore.

I truly think the perception of "southern" in Oklahoma is literally in the eye and ear of the beholder and where the beholder comes from.
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Houston
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I have seen some posters say art is a marker of culture. No matter where you are in Oklahoma, all art leans toward either Native American or Cowboy/Western heritage. This falls more in line with Western states and not Southern states.
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proud citizen View Post
I have seen some posters say art is a marker of culture. No matter where you are in Oklahoma, all art leans toward either Native American or Cowboy/Western heritage. This falls more in line with Western states and not Southern states.
I said this about art. When they dig up old civilizations, they heavily look at art objects to identify particular culture. Anything from pottery to paintings or ornaments.
You're right - googling "Oklahoma art" shows these themes. A lot of Southern states (if not most) have Confederate flag remnants in their flags. Here's Oklahoma state flag, Native American themed since 1925:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Oklahoma
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Old 01-05-2020, 09:46 PM
 
2,005 posts, read 719,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opossum1 View Post
The original Okie accent has Southern roots at it's origin, but as it was mentioned, there're a lot of people without this accent or it's very weak. I didn't really meet any single person speaking with anything resembling Southern accent in OK to me, but I was coming straight from the South, where accents are strong so contrast is striking. As you were coming to OK from the West, you might hear more of a Southern twang as you're comparing with more Western speech. If one goes down I-40, coming from Fort Smith area into OK, towards Sallisaw etc, 100% feels like leaving the South and suddenly everything seems either Western or Plains. A lot of Okies moved to California bringing the very subtle accent you may hear in Eastern or Central CA, with every 8th person in CA having this heritage, so by the same token one may say that California, especially Eastern CA is "Southern" because of the heritage. Actually, I'd lived in a town in Sierra Nevada/CA that was nicknamed "Little Ozarks" by some.
Let's get this straight. The Okie accent is a Texas lite accent. Oklahoma and Texas accents are about as different as a Toronto accent vs. a Chicago accent, wouldn't you say?
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:28 PM
 
452 posts, read 148,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
Let's get this straight. The Okie accent is a Texas lite accent. Oklahoma and Texas accents are about as different as a Toronto accent vs. a Chicago accent, wouldn't you say?
There's a curious article "South by Midwest: or, Where is Oklahoma?"
South by Midwest: Or, Where is Oklahoma?
"I also assumed that anyone not from a city spoke with an Oklahoma accent, which traces its genealogy back to Appalachia—a variation on the Southern accent. "

The origins of Oklahoma accent would be from its early English-speaking settlers, and I believe the first such settlers were coming mostly from the South.
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:32 PM
 
Location: WA Desert, Seattle native
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opossum1 View Post
There's a curious article "South by Midwest: or, Where is Oklahoma?"
South by Midwest: Or, Where is Oklahoma?
"I also assumed that anyone not from a city spoke with an Oklahoma accent, which traces its genealogy back to Appalachia—a variation on the Southern accent. "

The origins of Oklahoma accent would be from its early English-speaking settlers, and I believe the first such settlers were coming mostly from the South.
Interesting. There is a definite "southern" drawl with some who live in Oklahoma. However, I don't think a "drawl" actually equates to a "southern culture". Which is what this thread really is asking.
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:42 PM
 
452 posts, read 148,528 times
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That was my point exactly in earlier posts. I don't notice much of anything truly Southern in OK, including the drawl.
The "official" map of Southern American English includes only South-Eastern OK:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_American_English
And "South Midland Accent"/Midland American English is reported in Northern OK.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/is-the-ok...51c0c53ef.html
Quote:
I can't even talk in an Okie dialect — it's a sad story of peer pressure and also the oppression of the Okie migrants in California," she said. ...

The Oklahoma dialect, with its Southern influences and use of phrases like "y'all and "fixin' to" has long carried with it a stigma of being uneducated and poor. But more people are beginning to consider the drawl as part of Okie heritage, something to be celebrated and preserved.

Oklahoma's Southern speech patterns can be traced to early settlers who came to Oklahoma from the southeastern United States, said Dennis Preston, Regents Professor at Oklahoma State University. Preston has been studying the way Oklahomans speak and teaches a course on regional dialects at OSU
I must have been running into later transplants in OK all the time as everyone spoke like a Midwesterner from the Plains...
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:06 AM
 
86 posts, read 84,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opossum1 View Post
That was my point exactly in earlier posts. I don't notice much of anything truly Southern in OK, including the drawl.
The "official" map of Southern American English includes only South-Eastern OK:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_American_English
And "South Midland Accent"/Midland American English is reported in Northern OK.

I'm not sure anything about this accent map is "official" as you say or definitive at all, but it certainly does reflect the general truth that as you go from Northwestern Oklahoma to Southeastern Oklahoma, Southern culture picks up.


If you read the article, it says that Southern American English is in "eastern and southern Oklahoma," as opposed to what you said, which was that it "includes only South-Eastern OK." The map they chose reflects this interpretation as well, as it includes the areas of Oklahoma primarily settled by white Southerners over a century ago, minus the metropolitan areas of OKC and Tulsa, which were more cosmopolitan demographically. An older version of the map was once used on that Wikipedia page that included both OKC and Tulsa, but it was abandoned.


As for Northern Oklahoma, the Wikipedia article says "the accent of some Midland American English (often identified as a South Midland Accent) is documented as sharing key features with Southern American English, though to a weaker extent, including in northern Oklahoma." I believe that the study that served as the inspiration for the maps and the statement above (the Labov research) used monophthongization of 'I" (IPA [a:]) as the primary accent marker to differentiate the Southern and South Midland accents from each other. The Labov study, if I recall correctly, also interviewed relatively few Oklahomans for their study, which is obviously problematic, even if their results in general do reflect the "true" boundary.


My own anecdotal map would be the current map on Wikipedia showing Oklahoma's Southern accent as prevalent in northeast, southeast, and southwest Oklahoma, but a striped section over northwest Oklahoma and OKC and Tulsa to indicate that there is an overlap of Southern and South Midland accents.


Quote:
I must have been running into later transplants in OK all the time as everyone spoke like a Midwesterner from the Plains...
OKC and Tulsa's population shares a similar pattern of "Southern accent reduction" that has taken place in other Southern cities like Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Nashville, etc.; the young people in these cities speak with a more "mainstream American" accent and not the same Southern accent that the older native residents speak with.


Considering most visitors to Oklahoma visit either OKC or Tulsa, it's not surprising in the least that in the 2010s or 2020s someone can visit and not hear a Southern accent. I've had the same experience in other Southern cities.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:42 AM
 
13,993 posts, read 58,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
Let's get this straight. The Okie accent is a Texas lite accent. Oklahoma and Texas accents are about as different as a Toronto accent vs. a Chicago accent, wouldn't you say?
Does anyone in OK give a hoot about Chicago or Toronto when it comes to accent?
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