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View Poll Results: Should the Midwest secede?
Yes. 16 16.33%
No. 74 75.51%
Maybe. 8 8.16%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-28-2020, 01:33 PM
 
3,733 posts, read 2,890,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
It's sensationalistic, and an opinion piece - not a scientific review. The water wars between AL, GA & FL have been settled in GA's favor, where the headwaters are. Atlanta is in the midst of building a massive new park and reservoir in an old quarry, with great storage capacity. El Paso and Miami do have issues, but they hardly define the entire Sunbelt.

Flint is in the Midwest, and has a poisonous water system that needs to be completely rebuilt. The Midwest also has numerous and massively toxic Superfund sites that leak into groundwater, with remediation years away. These two situations hardly define the Midwest either.
Flint isn't the entire Midwest....

Time will tell...not either one of us.
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Old 06-28-2020, 02:36 PM
 
8,302 posts, read 5,705,570 times
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I guess one question to ask is what would the rest of the country lose that's of value if the "Midwest" did secede?

*Maybe* Chicago and the Auto Industry?
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:10 PM
 
3,733 posts, read 2,890,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
I guess one question to ask is what would the rest of the country lose that's of value if the "Midwest" did secede?

*Maybe* Chicago and the Auto Industry?
And you expect to be taken seriously? Or, is this just your feeling of superiority?
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:11 PM
 
8,302 posts, read 5,705,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
And you expect to be taken seriously?
This entire thread shouldn't be taken seriously, because the Midwest isn't going to secede.
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Old 06-28-2020, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Green Country
2,868 posts, read 2,819,326 times
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The Midwest is like the most politically moderate, good government region in America.

No way they'd ever support something as radical as secession.

And no reason why it'd make sense.

The majority of those states are swing states and get gobs of taxpayer dollars so Administrations can win their votes. They have it good, even if they can't compete with the Northeast and West Coast for high-paying jobs and top HR talent.
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Old 06-28-2020, 07:59 PM
 
527 posts, read 319,956 times
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Quote:
The Midwest is like the most politically moderate, good government region in America.

Generally true with the Great Lakes overall.
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Old 06-29-2020, 04:23 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
2,752 posts, read 2,406,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The stratospheric shift toward the Sunbelt will not stop, the center of gravity of the US population will continue to shift southwest as it has every decade.
"It will not stop".... until it does, and we appear to be entering that stage now. California is already seeing a mass exodus and many are moving themselves, and their businesses to states further east. The "Manifest Destiny" days are over. The gold rush days are over. The west coast has become a universally liberal, expensive, and increasingly frowned upon region, and you are starting to see a shift of people moving to overall quieter, more secluded cities.... many of which are in the Mountain west, south, and yes, the Midwest. Not everybody prefers the west coast or "southwest" lifestyle. And when you tack on expenses and political extremism, it turns even more people away.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:31 AM
 
1,803 posts, read 935,479 times
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The biggest thing holding the Midwest back vs other regions is perceived and true aspects of real and severe winters. Even pricier then Sunbelt states with lower taxation that does keep growing there too, is still not a big a factor as Winters. That cannot be altered unless some aspect of climate change at least keeps the Jet-Stream from dipping in winters to bring in the Arctic blast that no one loves.

Still I would say the Midwest or parts if it splitting from the Union is the least likely region to be first in a dire worst-case scenario of the US imploding from within. Quebec never split from Canada despite a time it was close. Only extremist call for it today yet.

For the US to split would not be some friendly voted upon choice. It would only come as a radical civil war of sorts fall of the Union and would be the same dire situation for another region. Though there were possible California seceding and a Texas. They are not a whole region and would set a precedence that the Constitution does not allow.

The old saying United we stand and Divided we fall would probably hold true especially for a whole region in a unlikely scenario unless a civil war occurred.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:32 AM
 
4,531 posts, read 5,103,665 times
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Clearly the symptoms of a divided nation are not confined to the Midwest -- I mean, we have the POTUS, who is from NYC, who is throwing rose petals to the racist/treasonous old Confederacy (that lost the war 150+ years ago) and is constantly re-Tweeting bigoted messages of Southerners and others.

But the Midwest has its own issues to deal with; principally it is still coping with de-industrialization. The Midwest blew-up population/popularity wise in the late 1800s in the American Industrial Revolution. African Americans escaping Jim Crow, Black Codes, lynching, etc. in the South and Immigrants coming through Ellis Island, including many Eastern Europeans, were drawn by good-paying, stable factory jobs. It was always a bit of an uncomfortable marriage, but it worked to a degree, esp when the nation tended to pull together to equip our military during 2 crushing World Wars in which both times, the US was on the winning side and, esp after WWII, the nation entered an era of power and good feeling amidst victory, able-bodied returning soldiers and a rising middle class. The factories were humming and this nation was flexing its international muscle...

Then the factories and jobs began disappearing; in Midwestern cities (and elsewhere, too) the environment had been fouled by industry (hey, in Cleveland our main river literally caught fire due to oil slicks -- several times!). Abandoned factories fell into ruin and, likewise, poisoned the neighborhoods surrounding them, with both industrial wastes and more generalized decay. And worse yet, the workers and their families left behind were left unemployed/income deprived, with many, esp men, lacking in education and transferable skills. And this general malaise has been passed down through the generations since, where today we have big Midwestern post industrial towns filled with angry, bitter blue-collar families and a lot of distrust. Many white ex-union types who were initially democrats have been sucked in by the 'Us versus Them' appeal of some populist Republicans who snooker voters into thinking their with them in terms of fighting establishment corporate interest when, these pols, are way entrenched in corporate pockets (remember the "... draining the swamp" b.s. by a certain presidential candidate? ... yeah, right)...

But more sinister is the political wink & nod dog whistle to racial hegemony -- of course White vs. Black, but with the added angst of newer immigrants from Latin America, Asia (Indians, Koreans, etc) as well as the growing Muslim/Middle Eastern peoples. Racial/ethnic segregation is considerably higher in Midwestern cities than those in the rest of the country... And then there's also pushback against the growing LGBTQ community many old-line Midwesterners just can't seem to relate to... It has all led to a restive, angry, regressive mentality in many Midwestern metro areas that seems backward and parochial to the rest of the country, esp the coasts. The hope, though, is coming in the form of health and tech industry who view the Midwest as a diamond in the rough -- built up urban infrastructure, quality universities -- both private research universities and established Big 10 state U's -- along with many natural resources and a trainable/re trainable population base. Millennials, yuppies and hipsters, are discovering the Midwestern cities as 'cool'; places like Detroit and Cleveland wide open frontiers to them -- Cleveland has been dubbed 'Rustbelt Chic" by some.

Of course the resentment by old-timers, snobbery and gentrification are presenting new issues and problems, but the Midwest is going to have to move past it's hardcore 'stick-in-the-mud' mentality if it is going to collectively move forward. The rest of the country is moving on and leaving Midwest in its rear-view mirror -- one example: cities all over the country are understanding urban, walkable neighborhoods and are building mass transit -- rapid transit and commuter rail ... cities except those (generally) in the Midwest (Detroit, Columbus, Cincinnati, etc, etc)... Freeways, cul-de-sac living and sprawl still rule in the Midwest for the most part...
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:34 AM
 
8,302 posts, read 5,705,570 times
Reputation: 7557
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Clearly the symptoms of a divided nation are not confined to the Midwest -- I mean, we have the POTUS, who is from NYC, who is throwing rose pedals to the racist/treasonous old Confederacy (that lost the war 150+ years ago) and is constantly re-Tweeting bigoted messages of Southerners and others.

But the Midwest has its own issues to deal with; principally it is still coping with de-industrialization. The Midwest blew-up population/popularity wise in the late 1800s in the American Industrial Revolution. African Americans escaping Jim Crow, Black Codes, lynching, etc. in the South and Immigrants coming through Ellis Island, including many Eastern Europeans, were drawn by good-paying, stable factory jobs. It was always a bit of an uncomfortable marriage, but it worked to a degree, esp when the nation tended to pull together to equip our military during 2 crushing World Wars in which both times, the US was on the winning side and, esp after WWII, the nation entered an era of power and good feeling amidst victory, able-bodied returning soldiers and a rising middle class. The factories were humming and this nation was flexing its international muscle...

Then the factories and jobs began disappearing; in Midwestern cities (and elsewhere, too) the environment had been fouled by industry (hey, in Cleveland our main river literally caught fire due to oil slicks -- several times!). Abandoned factories fell into ruin and, likewise, poisoned the neighborhoods surrounding them, with both industrial wastes and more generalized decay. And worse yet, the workers and their families left behind were left unemployed/income deprived, with many, esp men, lacking in education and transferable skills. And this general malaise has been passed down through the generations since, where today we have big Midwestern post industrial towns filled with angry, bitter blue-collar families and a lot of distrust. Many white ex-union types who were initially democrats have been sucked in by the 'Us versus Them' appeal of some populist Republicans who snooker voters into thinking their with them in terms of fighting establishment corporate interest when, these pols, are way entrenched in corporate pockets (remember the "... draining the swamp" b.s. by a certain presidential candidate? ... yeah, right)...

But more sinister was the wink & nod dog whistle to racial hegemony -- of course White vs. Black, but with the added angst of newer immigrants from Latin America, Asia (Indians, Koreans, etc) as well as the growing Muslim/Middle Eastern peoples. It has all led to a restive, angry, regressive mentality in many Midwestern metro areas that seems backward and parochial to the rest of the country, esp the coasts. The hope, though, is coming in the form of health and tech industry who view the Midwest as a diamond in the rough -- built up urban infrastructure, quality universities -- both private research universities and established Big 10 state U's -- along with many natural resources and a trainable/re trainable population base. Millennials, yuppies and hipsters, are discovering the Midwestern cities as 'cool'; places like Detroit and Cleveland wide open frontiers to them -- Cleveland has been dubbed 'Rustbelt Chic" by some.

Of course the resentment by old-timers, snobbery and gentrification are presenting new issues and problems, but the Midwest is going to have to move past it's hardcore 'stick-in-the-mud' mentality if it is going to collectively move forward. The rest of the country is moving on and leaving Midwest in its rear-view mirror -- one example: cities all over the country are understanding urban, walkable neighborhoods and are building mass transit -- rapid transit and commuter rail ... cities except those (generally) in the Midwest (Detroit, Columbus, Cincinnati, etc, etc)... Freeways, cul-de-sac living and sprawl still rule in the Midwest for the most part...
Very good post.
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