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Very good info. Don’t forget the impact of the Canadians and Nortel either.
True, but without IBM first, Nortel likely wouldn't have come.
Both IBM and Nortel set up shop in RTP on the Durham side of RTP as the Wake side wasn't even a thing yet. Nonetheless, I dare say that most of each company's employees settled in Raleigh and Cary. Cary wasn't nicknamed Containment Area for Relocated Yankees for nothing! I know, I know, I know that Canadians aren't Yankees, but still....
FWIW, my family came with IBM to Raleigh in 1974, but we were the odd family out because we came from San Jose.
True, but without IBM first, Nortel likely wouldn't have come.
Both IBM and Nortel set up shop in RTP on the Durham side of RTP as the Wake side wasn't even a thing yet. Nonetheless, I dare say that most of each company's employees settled in Raleigh and Cary. Cary wasn't nicknamed Containment Area for Relocated Yankees for nothing! I know, I know, I know that Canadians aren't Yankees, but still.... FWIW, my family came with IBM to Raleigh in 1974, but we were the odd family out because we came from San Jose.
Didn't a lot of these IBM employees come from the Binghamton and Hudson Valley(Poughkeepsie and Kingston) areas of NY? I ask because IBM started in the Binghamton area.
Didn't a lot of these IBM employees come from the Binghamton and Hudson Valley(Poughkeepsie and Kingston) areas of NY? I ask because IBM started in the Binghamton area.
Oh yes. A ton of folks came from Poughkeepsie, Kingston, Binghamton, etc. There are so many folks in the Raleigh area that have NY state roots. Many people are the kids and grandkids of those who came with IBM, but they still stay connected with their families back in NY. In many other cases, the families and friends in NY followed the transferees to Raleigh over time.
My old boss came with her family in the late-70s from Binghamton. She was around 10 and was tired of the snow. So she wrote city visitor centers all over the South and had them send brochures to her dad’s store. He finally got the hint and so one Saturday morning, they hopped in the car and drove all day and ended up in Raleigh. They looked around, spent the night and then drove back Sunday. They chose here in large part because it was about as far as you could go in a 10-hour day by driving. That story always cracked me up.
With all of this isolation stuff going on, I decided on one of my favorite pass times: looking at data. #dork
In any case, here are the MSA land areas in square miles for 1M+ metros in the "Sunbelt". For this purpose, I am defining the Sunbelt as the Southeastern states from Virginia/West Virginia/Kentucky and southward, and the Southwest inclusive of Colorado, Utah, and Nevada, but excluding California. These are often cited among some of the most bloated MSAs in the country, and are often very fast growing year over year. I included Tulsa as the only exception to the 1M+ because they were sitting at 994K as of 2018.
Some caveats: I realize that many counties in the West are enormous and artificially inflate MSA land areas, when in fact much of that land is often barren and/or largely unoccupied. Then again, the same can be said for the Everglades/swamps of South Florida. I recognize that there are adjacent MSAs to some of these listed that are part of a CSA with a listed city, but don't qualify on their own as a 1M+ MSA. I also recognize that there are MSAs, that when combined make up a CSA of 1M+ but don't qualify on their own.
I also left off Washington DC and Cincinnati, as their core cities are north of Virginia and Kentucky. In any case, make of it what you will.
Raleigh-Cary 2118
Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater 2515
Jacksonville 3202
New Orleans-Metairie 3202
Louisville/Jefferson County 3236
Orlando 3480
Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News 3540
Austin 4221
Richmond 4364
Birmingham-Hoover 4489
Memphis 4578
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach 5075
Oklahoma City 5512
Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Franklin 5689
Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia 5791
Tulsa 6270
San Antonio-New Braunfels 7313
Salt Lake City 7684
Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise 7892
Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land 8261
Denver-Aurora-Lakewood 8346
Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington 8673
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Alpharetta 8682
Tucson 9187
Phoenix 14565
PS: If I left off a metro, it was just an oversight and unintentional.
I know that MSAs are determined at the county level, but Riverside County really should be divided up between LA (NW), San Diego (SW), and Coachella Valley (East).
I know that MSAs are determined at the county level, but Riverside County really should be divided up between LA (NW), San Diego (SW), and Coachella Valley (East).
Thank you. I’ve said this countless times. I’m convinced those who say the IE (especially Riverside Co.) is just a suburb of LA really don’t know what they’re talking about. This, and the fact it runs to the Arizona border makes it ridiculous to add to LA. The same can be said about the high desert of San Bernardino Co. all the way to the Nevada border.
This happens to Milwaukee, as well. Chicago has eaten up part of Milwaukee's MSA. Some day, it will all be one big CSA. Not yet, though.
Chicago is trying to hit the 10 million megacity mark by any means. Like NY, the area is a tri-state region, but the thing of it is, the metro needs to attract more people or find other ways to fill up those counties that are half or more rural. It's a stretch to consider Dekalb as part of the Chicagoland metro, when it's rural outside of the principal city and there are miles stretches of rural/cornfield between it and Aurora ( I personally consider the true west fringes). According to wikipedia, the metro consists of 14 counties (Dekalb was recently added in 2010), and of that, only Cook, Dupage, and largely Lake (IL), IMO, have been filled.
Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 03-21-2020 at 03:34 PM..
Chicago is trying to hit the 10 million megacity mark by any means. Like NY, the area is a tri-state region, but the thing of it is, the metro needs to attract more people or find other ways to fill up those counties that are half or more rural. It's a stretch to consider Dekalb as part of the Chicagoland metro, when it's rural outside of the principal city and there are miles stretches of rural/cornfield between it and Aurora ( I personally consider the true west fringes). According to wikipedia, the metro consists of 14 counties (Dekalb was recently added in 2010), and of that, only Cook, Dupage, and largely Lake (IL), IMO, have been filled.
Agreed. I was born and raised in Chicagoland and I've never been to Grundy County (other than just driving through on 55) once. I've never known anyone who's lived there and couldn't name any attractions there.
Newton and Jasper Counties, IN, seem even more questionable as members of the MSA, though I suppose they get there through commuters to Lake County, IN, a "core employment center" or whatever.
With all of this isolation stuff going on, I decided on one of my favorite pass times: looking at data. #dork
In any case, here are the MSA land areas in square miles for 1M+ metros in the "Sunbelt". For this purpose, I am defining the Sunbelt as the Southeastern states from Virginia/West Virginia/Kentucky and southward, and the Southwest inclusive of Colorado, Utah, and Nevada, but excluding California. These are often cited among some of the most bloated MSAs in the country, and are often very fast growing year over year. I included Tulsa as the only exception to the 1M+ because they were sitting at 994K as of 2018.
Some caveats: I realize that many counties in the West are enormous and artificially inflate MSA land areas, when in fact much of that land is often barren and/or largely unoccupied. Then again, the same can be said for the Everglades/swamps of South Florida. I recognize that there are adjacent MSAs to some of these listed that are part of a CSA with a listed city, but don't qualify on their own as a 1M+ MSA. I also recognize that there are MSAs, that when combined make up a CSA of 1M+ but don't qualify on their own.
I also left off Washington DC and Cincinnati, as their core cities are north of Virginia and Kentucky. In any case, make of it what you will.
Additionally, with regard to Lake County, unless one lives in Eustis/Mount Dora or Clermont area, no one is commuting daily into town from there.
On the other hand, Volusia County cities like DeBary and Deltona have plenty of daily commuters -- heck, there is even a Sunrail station in DeBary -- but yet, because they're in Volusia County, they get thrown into the Daytona MSA. It's a very flawed measurement.
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