Most worldly city/metro between SF (Bay Area), DC (DMV), Miami (South Fla), Houston (transplants, crime)

[the resident09]

A spin off on the thread of Boston, Chicago, and Philly.

I believe some of the criteria there being discussed was:

"Museums, international population, international tourism, economic integration, arts/culture/music, level of interest in international affairs among the populace."

Go!

[whereiend]

SF and DC have a big lead over Miami and Houston I would think. Houston and Miami have big international populations, but the education levels are much lower than SF and DC.

[Mutiny77]

Miami takes this one pretty easily IMO. It is the only city of these four nicknamed as a capital of a sociopolitical realm that it is not geographically a part of. It has much more international importance than domestic importance which is evidenced by the fact that it has many more U.S. headquarters of Latin American companies (banks especially) and Latin American divisions of U.S. companies than U.S.-based corporate headquarters, and it ranks second in the country for attracting overseas tourists. It hosts cultural events with wide international reach and has the smallest NHW popation of any of these cities. Its port is the busiest cruise/passenger port in the world. And so on and so forth.

Education levels aren't necessarily a strong predictor of worldliness and in this case, education primarily benefits Americans whereas immigrants and their children actually have lived experiences in other parts of the world and they bring many of their cultural practices and values to the U.S. when they immigrate.

In short, I think Miami wins this because so much of its population is actually from other parts of the world and its economy is mostly outward-focused globally and not as domestically-focused.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Miami takes this one pretty easily IMO. It is the only city of these four nicknamed as a capital of a sociopolitical realm that it is not geographically a part of. It has much more international importance than domestic importance which is evidenced by the fact that it has many more U.S. headquarters of Latin American companies (banks especially) and Latin American divisions of U.S. companies than U.S.-based corporate headquarters, and it ranks second in the country for attracting overseas tourists. It hosts cultural events with wide international reach and has the smallest NHW popation of any of these cities. Its port is the busiest cruise/passenger port in the world. And so on and so forth.

Education levels aren't necessarily a strong predictor of worldliness and in this case, education primarily benefits Americans whereas immigrants and their children actually have lived experiences in other parts of the world and they bring many of their cultural practices and values to the U.S. when they immigrate.

In short, I think Miami wins this because so much of its population is actually from other parts of the world and its economy is mostly outward-focused globally and not as domestically-focused.

I very much disagree, especially given you feel Miami sticks out regarding so much of it's population is from other parts of the world. The predominate ethnic group there by far is Hispanic, with the majority within that group from Cuba and with numbers far fewer Nicaragua. Another element is Haitian, a country not far removed from the other two mentioned.

The Washington DC (metro area) is extremely diverse with ethnic groups in considerable size from all over the globe. The DC metro has sizable communities representing China, Vietnam, Korea, El Salvador, Thailand, Laos, India, Pakistan, Iran, Ethiopia and Nigeria. Every country the US has diplomatic relations with has an embassy in DC which range in size, but are often sizable in staff with family members and acquaintances often joining them from the home country over time further diversifying the population. Furthermore worldliness is most widely defined as "sophisticated and experienced" where DC clearly has a leg up with a base population that ranks as the 3rd most educated metro area after Ann Arbor MI and San Jose CA, whereas the Miami metro area ranked 80th behind metros like Little Rock AR and Ogden UT.

[elchevere]

I was waiting to reply, uncertain if this was going to be a redux of the 1-10/15 rankings that focuses on domestic or if it truly was going to take into account international importance.

Miami might not be #1, it does have the highest percentage of foreign born residents of any city in the country. It does have the 2nd highest international air passenger traffic after NYC. It does have the 2nd highest concentration of international banks after NYC.

Culturally, Miami is not as prominent as DC in terms of museums but it is not as though none exist here (Perez Art Museum, Frost Museum of Science, Vizcaya, along with many ethnic museums—Cuban, Jewish etc), but where it stands out are annual events: Miami is the only US city and 1 of only 3 in the world (Basel and Hong Kong the others) to host Art Basel; Ultra Is an EDM festival that attracts 175,000 from around the world—including Asia, Calle Ocho Festival attracts over 1M attendees; Miami International Boat Show (heck, has international in its name), Miami Open, Hard Rock Stadium regularly hosts sold out soccer matches featuring Real Madrid, Barca, Manchester United, and Brazilian + Colombian National teams. Miami, along with DC, is currently one of the top 4 US cities likely to host 2026 World Cup matches. Formula 1 was a strong possibility for 2021 prior to Covid 2019 (might or might not be still on). Miami is a fashion center, hosting its annual Fashion Week and Swim Week events which attract international designers. International performances are quite common at the Adrienne Arsht Performing Arts Center and AA Arena, as they most assuredly are in the other 3 mentioned cities.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/soccer....world-cup/amp/

Miami has long been known as an upscale shopping destination, particularly for foreigners where certain high end brands do not have boutiques and/or are not offered in their home countries, for fear of their customers being potential crime and kidnap victims (let alone possible higher import prices—see Brazil)

Miami (pre-Covid) has been dubbed the cruise capital of the world.

Miami does have Little Havana and Little Haiti, Doral is known as Doralzuela, Bal Harbour and mid beach could be Little Tel Aviv, whereas Sunny Isles might as well be renamed Little Moscow and Pompano could be Little Brazil. Miami has been popular with Europeans, Canadians and Israelis for decades, it is becoming increasingly popular with Turks. Miami has increasingly been attracting wealthy transplants not only from the Northeast but also abroad who are frequent contributors to the arts and medical centers.

Miami might not have as many varied embassies as DC but its populace is certainly active in politics, with frequent marches in front of the Venezuelan, Dominican, and other consulates. We know the Cubans have a strong influence here.

Where Miami is deficient is in terms of Asian presence, least of the 4 cities (though Asians are not foreign to Latin America, particularly as it is incorporated in many cuisines, particularly Peruvian, and Brazil which hosts the largest Japanese population outside of Japan). Miami also does not have a strong higher education presence but that (1) does not stop well educated people from moving here and (2) there is no law preventing Miami high school grads from being educated elsewhere and then returning at some later point in their careers and (3) there are Ivy League networking mixers that I attend 2-3x year here —we are not all dummies, dishwashers and Uber drivers here.

All 4 cities attract international clients for different business reasons. Hard not to equate technology products with SF; international relations with DC; energy with Houston; and Latin American business and tourism with Miami (though the other 3 have varying degrees of international tourism as well).

Living in Miami is like living in a foreign country....not sure the other 3 cities feel that way or can say that.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by kyle19125

I very much disagree, especially given you feel Miami sticks out regarding so much of it's population is from other parts of the world. The predominate ethnic group there by far is Hispanic, with the majority within that group from Cuba and with numbers far fewer Nicaragua. Another element is Haitian, a country not far removed from the other two mentioned.

I'm a bit confused. Was this supposed to be a rebuttal of my statement concerning Miami's foreign-born/immigrant population? If you, you didn't actually refute what I stated. You only said the majority of Miami's Hispanic population is Cuban and there are far less Nicaraguans; this is entirely meaningless in the absense of data concerning the country of birth of persons within each group, percentage of the Hispanic population each group comprises, and similar statistics about other Hispanic groups since there are most certainly more Hispanic groups in Miami than those two.

I'm not sure at all what you are trying to say about Haitians and them not being "far removed" from Cubans and Nicaraguans.

Another point worth mentioning is that Miami has a ton of part-time residents from outside of the U.S. who aren't counted in its population statistics.

The Washington DC (metro area) is extremely diverse with ethnic groups in considerable size from all over the globe. The DC metro has sizable communities representing China, Vietnam, Korea, El Salvador, Thailand, Laos, India, Pakistan, Iran, Ethiopia and Nigeria. Every country the US has diplomatic relations with has an embassy in DC which range in size, but are often sizable in staff with family members and acquaintances often joining them from the home country over time further diversifying the population.

DC most certainly does have more representation of the countries of the world than Miami in terms of both the resident population and the diplomatic community. However Miami is no slouch in the latter category, having over 100 foreign consulates, foreign trade offices, and bi-national chambers of commerce in the area.--and they are restricted to Latin American countries only.

Furthermore worldliness is most widely defined as "sophisticated and experienced" where DC clearly has a leg up with a base population that ranks as the 3rd most educated metro area after Ann Arbor MI and San Jose CA, whereas the Miami metro area ranked 80th behind metros like Little Rock AR and Ogden UT.

I think the terms sophisticated and worldly are associated but they most certainly aren't completely synonymous. Many (although certainly not all) persons from several of these foreign-born/immigrant populations we offer as evidence of a place's worldliness do not have high levels of formal education themselves. However, they clearly have real life experience with living in their home countries and now the U.S., and in several cases they represented the most privileged class of people in their home countries which made it possible or easier for them to immigrate to the U.S. in the first place. It could also be argued that a larger share of Miami's foreign-born population is less assimilated and retains more of its native culture than the foreign-born populations of these other cities; after all, it is easily the most bilingual city among the options, in both the living room and the boardroom and it is a city driven in large part by entrepreneurs and small businesses, and even many of the corporations based there are Latin American-based or -focused. As I mentioned, the regional economy is very outward-looking in many different respects.

Also the region's climate and geography are more like Caribbean and some Central and South American cities than most major American cities.

[the resident09]

Originally Posted by elchevere

.
Living in Miami is like living in a foreign country....not sure the other 3 cities feel that way or can say that.

I don't know about this outside of Dade County. No doubt the rest of South Florida has diversity and international migrants, but I don't take Broward or Palm Beach County as feeling like "living in another country". As someone who once lived in Orlando/ Central FL, the other two South FL counties are just Florida to me, and not that great a difference in feel.

Miami itself and other parts of Dade County may give a different type of worldly feel, but all of South Fla I wouldn't say is "foreign" in feel, actually not even half of it.

[elchevere]

I was referring to the Miami area only though there are some parts of Broward...definitely not Palm Beach County!! Miami Dade, by itself, does represent 45% of the 3 County MSA population—throw in Hollywood, Pembroke Pines, Lauderdale Lakes, Miramar, and Pompano.

Surprised we haven’t yet heard from Houston posters.

Originally Posted by the resident09

I don't know about this outside of Dade County. No doubt the rest of South Florida has diversity and international migrants, but I don't take Broward or Palm Beach County as feeling like "living in another country". As someone who once lived in Orlando/ Central FL, the other two South FL counties are just Florida to me, and not that great a difference in feel.

Miami itself and other parts of Dade County may give a different type of worldly feel, but all of South Fla I wouldn't say is "foreign" in feel, actually not even half of it.

[masssachoicetts]

THis is tough. In Latin America? Hands down Miami.. Miami is probably the most popular American city to Latin America anyway.

But outside Latin America? Maybe San Francisco followed closely by DC. Especially in Asia do you see SF grow in popularity the way Boston is prominent to Europe.

So my list goes:

1. SF (Most popular in Asia)
2. DC
3. Miami (Most Popular in Latin America)
4. Houston

[Mutiny77]

Interestingly, the Miami and SF MSAs have the same amount of European immigrants (135K) according to Census data from 2012-2016, which constitutes a larger percentage of the overall population of the SF MSA since it is less populous than Miami's. DC isn't too far behind with 112K. Not sure where Houston falls.