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I dont think anyone seems butthurt, more like your deliberate mischaracterizations of the coasts makes you seem like you're arguing in bad faith and determined to try to make your side look better while portraying a dishonest, very skewed picture of things. Which... doesn't make your side look good. I think people, from everywhere, respect honesty above all. No one who has spent any amount of time in the countryside of the east coast would in any way agree that it's covered in graffiti and trash- it's borderline absurd to say so. I have spent time in both coasts (lived on both coasts) and seen trash in both places, although not that much of it. I could post photos of graffiti laden places out west, like the salton sea, but that wouldn't be an accurate representation. Gathering places where people deliberately go to carve their name into rock or spray paint the rocks is not an honest representation of what most nature areas look like. And you know that.
You mean Slab City? No doubt you could post pictures of graffiti in Slab City. It's famous for it. But that is not a hiking trail, or a place anyone would likely go hiking. You can also find graffiti in most any urban area in California, but that is not a nature or hiking area. So you are comparing apples and oranges.
You mean Slab City? No doubt you could post pictures of graffiti in Slab City. It's famous for it. But that is not a hiking trail, or a place anyone would likely go hiking. You can also find graffiti in most any urban area in California, but that is not a nature or hiking area. So you are comparing apples and oranges.
Well I googled it and found plenty of graffiti hiking spots all over California. So I could post those. The point is it's disingenuous to post a few isolated areas and act like it's representative of the general state of nature in such a large area. I've seen you do this in a couple threads- it's like you have this bizarre need to misrepresent the east coast as some kind of trash/graffiti haven which is so far from reality that it kind of boggles the mind. I can only imagine where this obsession/insecurity came from. Surely you can make arguments for the west coast having superior hiking that don't involve outright lies and clear misrepresentation?
Okay so it's even worse than what I said. And there are signs posted ALLLLL over Maryland warning people about the penalties for littering. "Keep Maryland Beautiful" road signs are everywhere in Maryland. So if it's "just a scare tactic" it seems to be one they take very seriously.
Graffiti and vandalism has been a well know problem on the AT, since at least 1970. There are plenty of pictures and videos documenting it, and much has been written about it. See the below link. You can deny it all you want, but it doesn't make it less true.
Quote:
Incidents of graffiti have been on the rise in recent years all along the Trail. Although artistic tags and special signatures have traditionally existed at various cabins, shelters, and geographic landmarks, new graffiti is beginning to appear in more secluded parts of the trail which were previously untouched and preserved. Graffiti is considered to be defacement of government property but is difficult to enforce on the trail. Citations rarely occur despite identifying markers such as a person's initials or start-end point. Trail officials believe a snowball effect is occurring where the increasing prevalence of graffiti is seen as an indicator to others that such type of activity is acceptable along the trail. Currently, the 7,000 AT volunteers are the ones responsible for cleaning up graffiti.
The most prominent areas of graffiti are often geological landmarks found near scenic landscapes on the trail. Pictured left, both Bake Oven Knob and Hawk Rock are two such locations where hikers tend to congregate.
Graffiti and vandalism has been a well know problem on the AT, since at least 1970. There are plenty of pictures and videos documenting it, and much has been written about it. See the below link. You can deny it all you want, but it doesn't make it less true.
And there's graffiti on the Pacific Crest Trail too. As others have pointed out, the Appalachian trail goes through many major urban areas, so there might be a high prevalence of it in those areas on the AT. But should I start posting pictures of California graffiti in every thread and tell everyone that that's what the entire west coast looks like? Because I could. And that's what you're doing, and it's disingenuous, misleading, and wrong. And again, strange that someone would just decide to push this particular lie and constantly post about it even after being called out by other users. I dont get the logic, if there is any, in this particular argumentation strategy. Just seems so pointless, when you know others will reveal the fact that this is not, in fact, what wilderness areas on the east coast looks like, not at all.
And there's graffiti on the Pacific Crest Trail too. As others have pointed out, the Appalachian trail goes through many major urban areas, so there might be a high prevalence of it in those areas on the AT. But should I start posting pictures of California graffiti in every thread and tell everyone that that's what the entire west coast looks like? Because I could. And that's what you're doing, and it's disingenuous, misleading, and wrong. And again, strange that someone would just decide to push this particular lie and constantly post about it even after being called out by other users. I dont get the logic, if there is any, in this particular argumentation strategy. Just seems so pointless, when you know others will reveal the fact that this is not, in fact, what wilderness areas on the east coast looks like, not at all.
Yes, I would like to see your source, that graffiti is a current and ongoing problem anywhere on the PCT, similar to the problem I have documented on the AT.
Yes, I would like to see your source, that graffiti is a current and ongoing problem anywhere on the PCT, similar to the problem I have documented on the AT.
I will be sure to start posting these photos under every thread about west coast hiking, and inform everyone that this is what the entire west coast looks like. Because logic!
Some people have a weird, cherry picking supported agenda to basically make a moral judgement against half of a continent. I don't get the insecurity. The West is amazing, why disparage another region to raise one's self-esteem?
I have confronted this attitude of stereotyping the East by my Western guiding collegues a lot since I started working back there. "Why would you go there? Ewww. Small mountains, grafitti, It's all a big city, POC, etc."
I don't even want to vote in the poll here since I like both for different reasons. I haven't spent three decades exploring and guiding in the West out of convenience. I live and work here because I love it. But I discovered that I really love the Northeast, too (and I haven't even explored any of the Southeast ouside of my thruhike almost 20 years ago.)
I guess I just can't understand the idea of wrapping up my identity in feeling superior because of where I happen to live or work or supported by some arbitrary criteria based on subjective opinions.
Some people have a weird, cherry picking supported agenda to basically make a moral judgement against half of a continent. I don't get the insecurity. The West is amazing, why disparage another region to raise one's self-esteem?
I guess I just can't understand the idea of wrapping up my identity in feeling superior because of where I happen to live or work or supported by some arbitrary criteria based on subjective opinions.
If you know certain posters and their posting history it would probably explain a lot!
I will be sure to start posting these photos under every thread about west coast hiking, and inform everyone that this is what the entire west coast looks like. Because logic!
You are being very disingenuous. Non of those pictures are anywhere near the PCT. You are showing pictures of Slab City which is 100 miles east of the PCT. You are showing other pictures of some private property in Corona California which is 40 or 50 miles southwest of the PCT. No PCT hiker would ever see any of that, unless they got off the trail and traveled a long distance with the intention of seeing it, and then they would have to trespass on posted private property to see it. The pictures I posted are directly on the AT at major well known view points. It's impossible for any AT hiker not to see it, unless maybe they hiked in the dark.
Some people have a weird, cherry picking supported agenda to basically make a moral judgement against half of a continent. I don't get the insecurity. The West is amazing, why disparage another region to raise one's self-esteem?
I have confronted this attitude of stereotyping the East by my Western guiding collegues a lot since I started working back there. "Why would you go there? Ewww. Small mountains, grafitti, It's all a big city, POC, etc."
I don't even want to vote in the poll here since I like both for different reasons. I haven't spent three decades exploring and guiding in the West out of convenience. I live and work here because I love it. But I discovered that I really love the Northeast, too (and I haven't even explored any of the Southeast ouside of my thruhike almost 20 years ago.)
I guess I just can't understand the idea of wrapping up my identity in feeling superior because of where I happen to live or work or supported by some arbitrary criteria based on subjective opinions.
The only cherry picking going on is by the people who are taking offense to my pointing out that graffiti is major problem on the AT, and then posting pictures of ruined buildings in Slab City covered in graffiti, and other graffiti in urban areas of Southern California, and trying to pass it off as graffiti on the PCT. You guys just make me proud to be Westerner. You can't find any graffiti on the PCT, because it doesn't exist. At least not in that form. You might find Sharpie markings on signs, but that is the worst graffiti you will find on the PCT. There is zero tolerance for spray painting rocks in natural areas in the West. What happens on private property can't be controlled.
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First the AT:
