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I am unaware of where you have previously resided or traveled, but I can tell you one thing: Italian-, Irish- and Portuguese-American people who live in the Northeast United States are not, by any accord, "liberal" or "progressive" simply because they tend to vote for Democratic political candidates. Aside from Jews, ethnic whites in the Northeast are probably more conservative than most modern-day Southerners, since they are more parochial, do not usually have children out of wedlock during their teenage or early adulthood years and tend to avoid marital divorce or separation at all costs. In my experience, most Southerners have been married and divorced multiple times, and many of them have illegitimate children from their teenage or early adulthood years. Also, Southerners tend to worship at churches with conservative doctrine, but very non-traditional worship formats and styles. A Roman Catholic person from Massachusetts or Rhode Island would likely view a non-denominational church in suburban Atlanta or Dallas as very liberal based on the ways by which people dress, interact and praise in those types of churches. Finally, people in the Northeast almost always employ a more conservative baby-naming convention than Southerners, usually opting to name their children after Jewish prophets or Roman Catholic saints. In the South, most people give their babies the strangest, most untraditional first names I have ever heard or seen written on a piece of paper (e.g., "Kaitlynn," "Jaylynn," "Brenden," etc.).
I want to reinforce the point about divorce: People in the South have very liberal attitudes regarding marriage and divorce, at least relative to people in the Northeast and Midwest. I am nearing 40 years of age and know very few people my age or older who have/had divorced grandparents. In the South, it is relatively common to meet people over the age of 75 who have been divorced at least once. In other words, many Southerners in their 20's and 30's have divorced grandparents. Aside from lower-class Irish-Americans, it is virtually unheard of for a Northeastern person in their 20's or 30's to have divorced grandparents, since most of our grandparents were highly traditional European immigrants or the children thereof whose vocabularies did not include the word "divorce."
Agree with this. I am Catholic (with Irish and Italian ancestry) and from Metro Detroit, and I have much of my extended family in Chicago, which is also a very blue area with a large Catholic European decent population (Polish, Irish, Italian, Ukranian, Greek). There are similarities to the Northeast. These groups are "Democratic" as opposed to "liberal." And they vote Democratic historically based on the fact that many are blue collar and due to the ties with unions, it is favorable to vote blue. They do not vote blue because of "liberal" politics. Like you said, many still have socially conservative Catholic values.
I am unaware of where you have previously resided or traveled, but I can tell you one thing: Italian-, Irish- and Portuguese-American people who live in the Northeast United States are not, by any accord, "liberal" or "progressive" simply because they tend to vote for Democratic political candidates. Aside from Jews, ethnic whites in the Northeast are probably more conservative than most modern-day Southerners, since they are more parochial, do not usually have children out of wedlock during their teenage or early adulthood years and tend to avoid marital divorce or separation at all costs. In my experience, most Southerners have been married and divorced multiple times, and many of them have illegitimate children from their teenage or early adulthood years. Also, Southerners tend to worship at churches with conservative doctrine, but very non-traditional worship formats and styles. A Roman Catholic person from Massachusetts or Rhode Island would likely view a non-denominational church in suburban Atlanta or Dallas as very liberal based on the ways by which people dress, interact and praise in those types of churches. Finally, people in the Northeast almost always employ a more conservative baby-naming convention than Southerners, usually opting to name their children after Jewish prophets or Roman Catholic saints. In the South, most people give their babies the strangest, most untraditional first names I have ever heard or seen written on a piece of paper (e.g., "Kaitlynn," "Jaylynn," "Brenden," etc.).
I want to reinforce the point about divorce: People in the South have very liberal attitudes regarding marriage and divorce, at least relative to people in the Northeast and Midwest. I am nearing 40 years of age and know very few people my age or older who have/had divorced grandparents. In the South, it is relatively common to meet people over the age of 75 who have been divorced at least once. In other words, many Southerners in their 20's and 30's have divorced grandparents. Aside from lower-class Irish-Americans, it is virtually unheard of for a Northeastern person in their 20's or 30's to have divorced grandparents, since most of our grandparents were highly traditional European immigrants or the children thereof whose vocabularies did not include the word "divorce."
I'm a native Southerner from Louisiana. I've also lived in West Virginia, and in Baltimore County, Maryland in an area with a lot of ethnic whites, especially Irish and Italians, in eastern Baltimore County. Relative to the DC suburbs, an area like Dundalk or Essex would be conservative, especially with things like gun rights, political correctness issues like BLM etc, but people there are not socially as conservative as southern West Virginia or here in Louisiana. Those ethnic whites were less opposed to abortion and gay marriage than people in Louisiana and West Virginia. Fiscally there were a lot of union members in the Baltimore suburbs, though like Southerners many of them were also opposed to welfare recipients, Obamacare, Medicaid expansion etc but still not to the extent of the Deep South or WV. Eastern Baltimore County would probably still be a Democrat area today if not for the unfair trade agreements and government overregulation that destroyed the steel and auto industries there.
Maryland's religious denominations are not as conservative as here. There were more Methodists and Catholics while WV and LA have more Baptists, Pentecostals and evangelical nondenominational Christians. Louisiana Catholics are socially more conservative than Maryland Catholics. Even in Baltimore County, I didn't feel comfortable openly stating my beliefs that abortion should be totally illegal and that gay marriage should not be allowed while in Louisiana and West Virginia these are very mainstream opinions.
In local races in Baltimore County, candidates tend to stress being moderate and reaching out to "swing voters". While in Louisiana and West Virginia, candidates in my local areas compete to see who is seen as the most conservative and the most devout Christian. A high approval rating from the NRA is seen as positive. I remember a candidate in West Virginia stressing how he homeschooled his kids because public schools are too much into liberal indoctrination. Also when I was in West Virginia, I've met many people who consider Hooters to be socially unacceptable and who didn't drink alcohol at all. I don't see a church in Baltimore preaching that Prohibition should still be effect, which is what my old preacher said from the pulpit.
There are some in Louisiana who only consider the Deep South to be the South, and they even consider North Carolina and Tennessee to be Yankee. I have an acquaintance who said he has family who moved to Charleston SC and developed "Yankee traits".
Modern day Maryland is entirely Northeast as is Northern Virginia. Even on the Eastern Shore, the part of Maryland that most resembles the South, most local restaurants don't serve sweet tea and there are more Methodists than Baptists. Western Maryland is Appalachian is a northern way, not Southern Appalachian like southern WV and Eastern Kentucky or East Tennessee. Northern West Virginia, especially Morgantown and Wheeling, is also the Northeast though Wheeling has Upper Midwestern influences. Baltimore is a very northern city to me. Though to be honest Baltimore is probably the Northeast city most similar to New Orleans and New Orleans is the Southern city most similar to Baltimore. (Outside the tourist areas, New Orleans' industrial landscape and aging infrastructure often resembles a Northeast city more than a Sunbelt city like Charlotte.)
There are some in Louisiana who only consider the Deep South to be the South, and they even consider North Carolina and Tennessee to be Yankee. I have an acquaintance who said he has family who moved to Charleston SC and developed "Yankee traits".
Modern day Maryland is entirely Northeast as is Northern Virginia. Even on the Eastern Shore, the part of Maryland that most resembles the South, most local restaurants don't serve sweet tea and there are more Methodists than Baptists. Western Maryland is Appalachian is a northern way, not Southern Appalachian like southern WV and Eastern Kentucky or East Tennessee. Northern West Virginia, especially Morgantown and Wheeling, is also the Northeast though Wheeling has Upper Midwestern influences. Baltimore is a very northern city to me. Though to be honest Baltimore is probably the Northeast city most similar to New Orleans and New Orleans is the Southern city most similar to Baltimore. (Outside the tourist areas, New Orleans' industrial landscape and aging infrastructure often resembles a Northeast city more than a Sunbelt city like Charlotte.)
In this argument, Maryland is a poor example. As of 2012, only 47-48% of people who reside at Maryland were born in the state (Source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/....html#Maryland). Therefore, most people who live in Maryland are transplants from other U.S. or immigrants from foreign countries. Primarily, Maryland has a high percentage of non-native residents because at least five counties in the state are located within the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area and, accordingly, sphere of influence. Of course, Washington, D.C. is one of the most transient metropolitan areas in the U.S. Because of the overall dynamism of the Capital Region and the high number of short- and long-term visitors the region receives on an annual basis, most of Maryland is not nearly as insular or parochial as, say, Rhode Island or adjoining areas of central and southeastern Massachusetts. And unlike New England, Maryland is located geographically closer to the population center of the United States, instead of being located in an extremity. As a result, people who live in Maryland have far more exposure to other Americans from different states and regions than New Englanders due to business trade and personal travel routes, regardless of whether or not we factor Maryland's proximity to D.C. into this equation.
And let's face it, most non-Hispanic white people in Maryland are fair-haired, light-eyed Americans of Northern and/or Western European ancestry and hail from Mainline Protestant backgrounds. As a practicing Congregationalist and openly gay man for many years now, I can assure you that, generally, Mainline Protestants are more open-minded, accepting and tolerant than Evangelical Protestants and non-Protestant Christians. If you migrate north and east of Maryland, most people are dark-haired, dark-eyed Eastern and Southern Europeans who are mostly Jewish, Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox and, accordingly, more conventional and parochial.
Last edited by Bert_from_back_East; 10-18-2020 at 09:43 PM..
Because of the overall dynamism of the Capital Region and the high number of short- and long-term visitors the region receives on an annual basis, most of Maryland is not nearly as insular or parochial as, say, Rhode Island or adjoining areas of central and southeastern Massachusetts. And unlike New England, Maryland is located geographically closer to the population center of the United States, instead of being located in an extremity. As a result, people who live in Maryland have far more exposure to other Americans from different states and regions than New Englanders due to business trade and personal travel routes, regardless of whether or not we factor Maryland's proximity to D.C. into this equation.
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Again, totally correct and very accurate. Having lived in both.
I'm Irish and Portuguese and I have Irish, Portuguese and Italian family by the hundreds all from MA CT RI and ME.
For the over 60 cohorts, Most are voting blue by a 55 to 45 margin but are extremely judgemental and concerned with how people live their lives. Tons of divorces. Like some of my uncles have been married 5 times since 1960.
However, the 30-60 cohort? Voting blue by a margin of 60 to 40. I'd say less divorces (so far) and are the most religious ones of the bunch. None are really all that religious ... However a good percent of the people in this age cohort (30%) moved out New England to places like NC GA TX TX TX TX TX TX GA NC NC SC CA CA CA TX) and the ones who moved out that way are significantly more conservative than the ones who stayed.
In my under 29 age cohort family? It's pretty crystal clear. Every one of my family members in RI CT MA (bar like two) posted for Blackout Tuesday on Instagram, are heavily liberal in policies from LGBT Rights and ProImmigration to Anti Gun. Tax the wealthy, you name it. Don't marry, hookup, party etc.
But the ones down south are way more conservative. I have three cousins in Knoxville TN who just yesterday posted on why Obama was a monkey or something like that. These ones in Urban Charlotte, Urban Nashville, Urban Miami and Urban Jacksonville are also very very conservative.
I don't buy for a single minute that NY NJ MA RI CT Irish, Portuguese and Italians are in general more conservative than the southern counterparts. Because I have hundreds of examples in my family and that just isn't true at all. It's more of an Urban vs Rural thing. And the Urbanized NE Corridor lies a little more liberal than the Urban South.
Yea I’d have to say in MA and CT at least (not sure for RI ME) it doesn’t seem like there’s many if ANY conservative young people-especially in the urban areas. I just don’t see them developing the same views/traits as the older generation there’s no ember for that to spark socially... something really monumental would have to happen. White ethnic People under 30/35 in New England do in fact seem very very liberal in a more consistent fashion than in generations past. I can only think of some towns deep in southeastern MA where this might not be the case.
90%+ of them are as MASS said. Pro BLM, tax the wealthy, free stuff, don’t marry, don’t have kids, and very politically correct, have gay friends, totally irreligious.
New Jersey is similar but it does seem to have some outspoken (young) conservatives in that state.
Once over 30/35 I I agree with Bert I do find Northeastern white peppers a bit more buttoned up and judge mental in regards to everyday life. This includes white people in Dundalk/eastern and southern Bmore county.
I am unaware of where you have previously resided or traveled, but I can tell you one thing: Italian-, Irish- and Portuguese-American people who live in the Northeast United States are not, by any accord, "liberal" or "progressive" simply because they tend to vote for Democratic political candidates. Aside from Jews, ethnic whites in the Northeast are probably more conservative than most modern-day Southerners, since they are more parochial, do not usually have children out of wedlock during their teenage or early adulthood years and tend to avoid marital divorce or separation at all costs. In my experience, most Southerners have been married and divorced multiple times, and many of them have illegitimate children from their teenage or early adulthood years. Also, Southerners tend to worship at churches with conservative doctrine, but very non-traditional worship formats and styles. A Roman Catholic person from Massachusetts or Rhode Island would likely view a non-denominational church in suburban Atlanta or Dallas as very liberal based on the ways by which people dress, interact and praise in those types of churches. Finally, people in the Northeast almost always employ a more conservative baby-naming convention than Southerners, usually opting to name their children after Jewish prophets or Roman Catholic saints. In the South, most people give their babies the strangest, most untraditional first names I have ever heard or seen written on a piece of paper (e.g., "Kaitlynn," "Jaylynn," "Brenden," etc.).
I want to reinforce the point about divorce: People in the South have very liberal attitudes regarding marriage and divorce, at least relative to people in the Northeast and Midwest. I am nearing 40 years of age and know very few people my age or older who have/had divorced grandparents. In the South, it is relatively common to meet people over the age of 75 who have been divorced at least once. In other words, many Southerners in their 20's and 30's have divorced grandparents. Aside from lower-class Irish-Americans, it is virtually unheard of for a Northeastern person in their 20's or 30's to have divorced grandparents, since most of our grandparents were highly traditional European immigrants or the children thereof whose vocabularies did not include the word "divorce."
You described my Italian family from Connecticut perfectly. They are Democrats but anything but liberal. Being a traditional Democrat there is much more about being part of the working class and unions, not about liberal causes like in CA.
The only answer that makes sense is that a person is a northeasterner if they live in the Northeast. Why do we try and complicate the obvious.
Because people can't help but throw politics into the mix. They think that if a state or part of a state becomes or feels liberal, it automatically makes that state and themselves living in it part of another region which is absurd. They can't seem to grasp that politics doesn't make regions, geography does.
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