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No, those are good reasons to not choose SF. It does sound like Madison would be a good choice.
I would also recommend Eugene, Oregon. It is reasonably priced, and a great time. I believe it gets a little bit of snow.
I haven't even thought of Eugene. Thanks for the suggestion. In a few days when this thread cools off I'll pore over it, whittle it down somewhat, and then post a poll with my final choices. What is Salem, OR like? Is it comparable in terms of climate and quality-of-life to Eugene?
ScranBarre, most states require you to have 150 credit hours to qualify to take the CPA exam-- and I believe Pennsylvania may be one of the only ones that doesn't have that requirement. Otherwise you might have to get a MS in Accounting degree (which is what I'm going into, only I didn't major in accounting as an undergrad so I have some extra courses to get caught up on). I would recommend staying in Pennsylvania-- I think your home state clearly embodies everything you love-- but not northeast PA. What about Pittsburgh? I'm sure you'll find a lot more opportunity there than in Scranton, since it's a much bigger city. And it's close enough where you could still make a trip back home for a long weekend.
Thank you very much for this very helpful and insightful reply. I visited Ithaca, NY for a photo tour, and that town reeked of political activism/correctness, environmentalism, student protests, etc. While I might find that to be an attractive quality right now as a 21-year-old social liberal, I've been told that as you age you tend to become more conservative; I don't want to be a 40-year-old party pooper or ogre who shakes his broom at rowdy college kids because they are disturbing him when he's trying to finish tax returns. Then again, you can also find many quiet neighborhoods in college towns that are away from all of the rowdiness.
As far as "size" goes, I'd be willing to go as small as Missoula, Ithaca, or Iowa City. Generally I'd want my "core" city to have no less than 30,000 people, but I have yet to decide just what type of city might be too large for me. I'm a little worried that if I go as small as those three aforementioned cities though that I'll run into the same problems I currently have of being unable to locate professional employment options.
I've always been intrigued by the Twin Cities because they seem to continuously be ranked in the Top 5 for each and every quality-of-life category ever released for major metropolitan areas in the U.S. Supposedly Minneapolis and St. Paul are amongst the most literate cities in the nation, they have thriving LGBT communities that aren't slammed by the heterosexual community, and they have the highest amount of cultural options per capita outside of NYC. I know they battle a MAJOR urban sprawl problem, but what major U.S. metropolitan area doesn't anymore? Chicago has always intrigued me too simply because it's like having the best of everything. You can go to the "beach" on the Lake Michigan shoreline to beat the heat on those sweltering summer days as well as enjoy ice fishing, snowmobiling, etc. not far outside of the city in the winter. Chicago's skyline looks to be very attractive, and aside from having an apparently insecure population judging by how everyone on this forum is always trying to "save" it in various "Chicago vs. ____" threads, it is a VERY formidable city. It may potentially host the 2016 Olympics, and our next president may list Chicago as his hometown.
What sets it apart from other large U.S. cities? I suppose not much. I've also been intrigued by Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis. There's just some sort of "edge" that those two cities have in my mind, and I don't quite know why. It probably has no rational explanation.
Housing budget? I'm supposing my starting salary as an accountant might be in the neighborhood of $45,000 in 2009. My partner will hopefully be earning around $30,000. At a combined income of $75,000 we'd probably be able to rent a 1-bedroom apartment in most of the more expensive cities that have been listed thus far or potentially purchase an older home with natural woodwork in need of renovation in a less expensive area. Going by the general rule of thumb that you should not purchase a home that has a price exceeding three times your annual household income, that would put my budget somewhere in the neighborhood of $225,000, which should afford us a fixer-upper in a city somewhere or the ability to rent until our incomes have climbed to the six-figure range through promotions.
While writing my first post I actually thought of Ithaca, provided you'd be okay with the entire package of characteristics you find with a college town, but I didn't mention it, thinking you might want to get away from anything too similar to the area you're already in. Now that I see both PA cities among the large cities you've thought about, that opens up more possibilities. I suppose either Pittsburgh or Philly would be a possible fit. Worth considering at least, and either of them is likely to cost less than some of the other large cities that have been mentioned, especially SF, anywhere around the Bay Area, really. I know what you mean about how often the Twin Cities show up on livability rankings. I've thought about that area myself, for the same reason. Occasionally I've heard that people there aren't so friendly, but personally I'd want to check that out for myself rather than rejecting a place on the basis of such hearsay.
Of the other large cities you mentioned, when it comes to St. Louis, one question would be how much winter you're looking for. St. Louis will average less snowfall than you'll find near the east coast. It's tough to find the place that has everything. Among larger cities, I might think that Boston would be THE one, except for the, um, minor matter of cost of living. On my other post I did mention Portland, ME. Portland is often seen as sort of a little Boston. Very vibrant smaller city, with truly a stunningly beautiful coastal location. One question there would be whether, even though you want some winter and snow, there's a limit on how far you want to take that. Winter in Portland is substantially longer than what you're used to. In the same genral region, I might also suggest Boston's little cousin down the road, Providence. It's a bigger city than many that people have suggested here, but still much smaller than any of the large cities you've thought about. I think you'd find a lot of the attitudes you're seeking in Providence, and it's worth keeping on your initial list of possibilities, because it might strike a good balance between being a somewhat smaller city and still being large enough to provide some good job opportunities.
I haven't even thought of Eugene. Thanks for the suggestion. In a few days when this thread cools off I'll pore over it, whittle it down somewhat, and then post a poll with my final choices. What is Salem, OR like? Is it comparable in terms of climate and quality-of-life to Eugene?
I am no expert, but supposedly Salem is much more conservative, and not as nice as Eugene.
It is with a heavy heart that I now realize that the economic outlook for accountants in my area is bleaker than I ever thought possible. Sure, it might have been nice for my two years on this forum to champion my hometown as a wonderful place in which to raise a family through my essays and photo tours, but that was before I started putting my "feelers" out for the limited accounting internships available in this area (two to be exact) and didn't make the cut for either slot due to intensive competition. It is with a heavy heart that I realize when I graduate in May 2009 I'll likely have to pack my bags and relocate to an area where people with college degrees have the potential for upward vertical mobility. I could stay in Scranton and commute daily to NJ or NY like thousands of others here in Northeastern Pennsylvania are now doing, but it is also my dream to someday adopt three neglected children into a home of love and warmth---two amenities I couldn't afford them if I'm commuting/working from 5 AM-8 PM five days per week.
Here are some of my criteria:
I would prefer to live in an area with a four-season climate. I know many of you were going to suggest areas like Atlanta, Phoenix, Raleigh, Austin, etc. to me, but I need an area that receives several healthy snow storms per season, summers with a few hot spells, colorful falls, and beautiful springs.
I'm an openly-gay male, but I'm very "straight-acting" in that most people have no idea about my sexual orientation unless I spell it out for them. I enjoy sports, work out regularly, and have neither a lisp nor limp wrists. Regardless though I'd still like to live in an area with enough social progression so that if my future partner and I are out on a date in a romantic restaurant on Valentine's Day we don't get a lot of whispers, stares, glares, etc., especially if we were to exchange some romantic gifts at our table.
I will be graduating in May 2009 with a B.S. in Accounting. Immediately afterwards I wish to enroll in the Becker course to prepare to take and successfully pass my CPA exam. I may also pursue my MBA with a concentration in accounting. I'd need to live in an area that has a respectable amount of employment opportunities in the public accounting field as well as a graduate school to further my studies.
I suppose I'm a borderline yuppie. Most of my friends are college students, and in the future I'll probably be associating mostly with fellow college-educated twenty-something professionals. I'd like to live in an area with a relatively high population of younger college-educated individuals, nightlife catering to this crowd, decent shopping options, etc.
I'd prefer to live in or very near to a downtown area. I'm open to living in a small, reasonably-priced 1-BR loft/condo for a while and then would like to live in a historic single-family home with character once the time arises to add children to my home. I'd be open to a rowhome, but I've always had a fond spot in my heart for Victorians. Sidewalks and the ability to walk to a grocery store, house of worship, park, restaurants, etc. would also be nearly essential.
Some cities that immediately came to my mind were Madison, WI, Ann Arbor, MI, and Grand Rapids, MI, but I'm open to many other suggestions as well. I'd generally prefer a more medium-sized city over a thriving metropolis, but I've also always been curious about the Twin Cities and Chicago as well.
Please help!
Sorry you have to leave Scranton man.
But on a lighter note Omaha would be good. We have a powerful and diverse job market, several insurance and banking companies, 5 fortune 500 companies, the borderline for a lot of things here is 72nd street. East of it is more democratic and older neighborhoods, some of which have crime problems. West is more republican with newer neighborhoods, way more malls, (if thats what you mean by shopping) and way less of a crime rate. both sides have both chain and local restaurants. we have two good universities, UNO and Creighton. We also have several other colleges in the area. Downtown is in the middle of a condo/apartment explosion. Tons of old buildings are being made into condo's and apartments with a new tower going up for condo's. Pacific life is even planning on building a tower here, so there is tons of job opportunity right now. Check out the Omaha forum for a lot more of information, they know way more than i do. Also if you like baseball, we host the CWS. Finally we have our world class zoo in south Omaha, which will probably expand a lot in the near future with roosenblatt being torn down to be replaced by a stadium in north downtown.
Last edited by Raphael07; 05-03-2008 at 08:30 AM..
I'd reccomend Omaha. Mainly because I'm from here and can speak from experience.
-Omaha has each individual season, and they're hard to miss.
-Omaha is the most diverse part of Nebraska, and seems to be very accepting of all people.
-Five fortune five hundred companies call Omaha home. Unemployment is relatively low in Omaha, while job opportunities are high. I'm sure a qualified candidate would have no trouble finding a job here.
-Omaha is home to several universities, Chreighton, University of Nebraska at Omaha, and many smaller universities.
-Your best bet for an area that caters to these individuals would be downtown, in and around the Old Market District. Currently there are several different condo towers under construction here with some lofts as well. The Qwest Center Omaha, which placed in the top ten last year for ticket sales, is within walking distance of the Old Market and hosts world class events.
A lot of these towns may fit you excellently. Please consider Omaha as well.
ScranBarre, most states require you to have 150 credit hours to qualify to take the CPA exam-- and I believe Pennsylvania may be one of the only ones that doesn't have that requirement. Otherwise you might have to get a MS in Accounting degree (which is what I'm going into, only I didn't major in accounting as an undergrad so I have some extra courses to get caught up on). I would recommend staying in Pennsylvania-- I think your home state clearly embodies everything you love-- but not northeast PA. What about Pittsburgh? I'm sure you'll find a lot more opportunity there than in Scranton, since it's a much bigger city. And it's close enough where you could still make a trip back home for a long weekend.
Good morning, vegaspilgrim. Yes, I'm aware that PA is one of the few states where you don't (yet) need 150 credit hours in order to qualify for the exam, but I believe that goes into effect in late-2009 here as well, meaning that if I were to finish my Spring 2009 semester at my current college, immediately enroll into a preparation course, and then ace all four parts of the exam by the end of the year I could hopefully obtain my CPA before that requirement tightens. Regardless though I've been pondering furthering my education beyond my Bachelor's Degree anyways. It might do me no good here in Scranton where it seems as if folks with Ph.D.'s earn the same as folks with Bachelor's Degrees and where folks with Bachelor's Degrees only seem to earn marginally more than counterparts with a high school diploma, but in other areas you typically hit a "ceiling" in the corporate world with only your Bachelor's Degree; it is becoming the new high school diploma.
I'm considering both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, but major drawbacks continue to be the population. I don't know if you spend much time on either forum, but the negativity and lack of civic pride so many folks have for each city is horribly depressing. I currently live on the fringes of a city where everyone who lives there bashes it into the ground, so I don't know if I'd like to trade that for a larger version of that.
Sen. Obama was right on the money with his "bitter" comments about Pennsylvanians, and I don't know why so many in our state were so offended because someone FINALLY told it like it is. People here ARE generally miserable, and as an optimist I hate being surrounded by such negativity because it manages to depress me as well.
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What is Salem, OR like? Is it comparable in terms of climate and quality-of-life to Eugene?
