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One metro area you don't have but should consider is Dallas-Fort Worth. Its large, over 7 million in the metro, has the most diverse economy in the sunbelt. a central time zone with two airports and home to American and Southwest Airlines. By car, four hours to Houston or Tulsa Ok, 3 hours to Oklahoma City Austin, a little over 4 hours to San Antonio..
By plane, you are within two hours or less, to Atlanta, Denver, Santa Fe, Las Vegas, Phoenix. Not more than 2 and half hours to Chicago and three hours to Mexico City. Also, cruise lines sail out of Galveston, Texas outside of Houston.
You are in Tech. DFW is the biggest Telecom region in the U.S. Its a big logistical hub. Its also the biggest financial service market in the southern U.S. Chase has a brand new campus for 12,000 employees, Daimler Benz, Deloitte, Nissan, Honda, Comerica Bank, Bank of America, Charles Schwab/TD Ameritrade, Toyota has it north american headquarters here. CBRE, a global Real Estate firm just announced they are moving the HQ to Dallas. Amazon Web Services his expanding is presence to 200,000 sf of space in north Dallas. DFW is also a big defense contractor hub with Lockheed Aerospace and Bell Helicopter based here.
DFW has no mountains but a lot of lakes. The cost of living is reasonable. Great shopping and dining abound. The area is very diverse population wise as is Texas as a whole.
I would definitely say DFW's lakes are amongst the most underrated attractions/features of any metro.
Thanks everyone for your informative replies. I'm replying below - just to say that interesting that nobody so far mentioned Phoenix which from afar was looking like a front-runner to me. In addition to continuing the thread generally, I'd be interested to hear why people aren't jumping to it like I was.
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Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East
If you are comfortable with being a minority without any of the privileges that accompany that designation or status, then California, Nevada and Texas are viable options for you.
I don't quite understand - I guess this was a political statement, please feel free to explain.
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Originally Posted by kyle19125
Have you heard of the east coast?
Of course. As I wrote I was told that West(ish) would suit me better. But I'm open minded at this early stage, that's why I came here. The East Coast seems to me to be a choice between bad winters and Florida. Perhaps I'm wrong, the weather is okay and I did forget the Carolinas, but I'm not sure what they have to offer over and above the places I mentioned.
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Originally Posted by walker1962
One metro area you don't have but should consider is Dallas-Fort Worth. Its large, over 7 million in the metro, has the most diverse economy in the sunbelt. a central time zone with two airports and home to American and Southwest Airlines. By car, four hours to Houston or Tulsa Ok, 3 hours to Oklahoma City Austin, a little over 4 hours to San Antonio..
By plane, you are within two hours or less, to Atlanta, Denver, Santa Fe, Las Vegas, Phoenix. Not more than 2 and half hours to Chicago and three hours to Mexico City. Also, cruise lines sail out of Galveston, Texas outside of Houston.
You are in Tech. DFW is the biggest Telecom region in the U.S. Its a big logistical hub. Its also the biggest financial service market in the southern U.S. <snip>
DFW has no mountains but a lot of lakes. The cost of living is reasonable. Great shopping and dining abound. The area is very diverse population wise as is Texas as a whole.
Interesting, and I'll surely add it to the list. If I go freelance rather than employee I don't know where my clients will be, so there will be surely some element of travel (this is a post-COVID project). I imagine that most clients will be SMBs rather than big enterprises, but that's not a 100% given. How are the nightlife, live music and singles scenes? What neighbourhoods should someone in my position consider? I guess in most cities I'd be looking at downtown-ish with a condo - a single guy in a SFH in the suburbs doesn't seem to fit, although I'm sure there are exceptions. Are the lakes good for hiking / nature, or is it best on the water?
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Originally Posted by Gaylord_Focker
Vegas. It’s not tacky. There are upscale areas.
Are the upscale areas also places for a single guy to enjoy life and be in the thick of things, or are they more in the suburbs? My research so far is searching the Internet and YouTube, and I haven't found one video yet that made Vegas look like a serious place to live. As I said, my friend told me amazing things, but we're in very different places in life.
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Originally Posted by citylove101
My thought too. These Sunbelt cities might look attractive, but to me, your criteria scream metro D.C. It has better mass transit than any of the cities you suggested, a decent social scene for grown-ups instead of kids, plenty of entertainment options, short drives to beaches or mountains, and lots of possibilities for IT work in both the public and private sector. Muggy summers, mild winters (some snow), glorious springs and autumns. Housing costs in the city are higher than the burbs, but the close in burbs, like Alexandria, are as urbane and cosmopolitan. I think you shouldn’t overlook DC.
Well, I was pretty clear that I don't want to be cold in winter, but I came here to get knowledgeable opinion, and f you say my (other) criteria *scream* DC, I will check it out for sure. I see that the cost of living is high, that and the weather don't look good. Any live music in the evenings? Down-to-earth (dive) bars? I can see where you are coming from and will read up on the subject, but I can't escape the feeling that it might be a bit shallow and / or pretentious. And if I'm going to go for a high cost of living area because of the better quality of life, wouldn't I just go to San Diego and enjoy the weather? (No offence, more than happy to be wrong.)
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Originally Posted by march2
I agree with this. Prince George's County, MD has some relatively affordable, quality housing in good areas, especially compared to the rest of the DC metro area.
Is that a place for a single guy to live and thrive, or a place to go with a couple of kids and a dog or two? A cursory Google offers (very) mixed results for the area.
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Originally Posted by gabetx
Techwise, Austin would be great. There are always things to do for young, middle aged, and old as far as nightlife, live music, outdoor activities, food, and live entertainment. You are right about traffic, it is a nightmare and as it is currently, public transportation is poor. Austin is a very diverse city with a large Hispanic and Asian population. The airport is not a large hub, but is a larger airport and will take you anywhere in the US and to London, Amsterdam, Paris, and Frankfurt, (not during the Rona obviously).
Other cities you should consider are Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, and Philadelphia.
Thanks for the feedback on Austin, good to hear that the bad sides don't outweigh the good. I'll check out the others - Houston I've never considered, I have UK expat friends very happy in Atlanta, Dallas mentioned above, and isn't Philadelphia a bit cold and not going anywhere fast? Happy to hear more about why you think it's a good option.
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Originally Posted by projectmaximus
I think you should strike off Portland, Seattle, Vegas and Nashville from your list, then see where you can get a good job. But of course tech jobs, particularly FAANG, are going increasingly remote so you might still be able to pick your city. Some folks mentioned DC, which wouldn't be bad if you are willing to accept the winters. Pittsburgh is another cold-weather alternative to mention for its abundance of tech jobs and their incredibly high salary to cost of living ratio for your FIRE goals.
Back in the sunbelt, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta and Miami (I realize it's in FL) all do indeed offer a decent opportunity to live in walkable neighborhoods with singles looking to mingle. Just saying, something to consider.
Lastly, I'll say, it's kind of a stab in the dark but I feel Austin is the best fit for you. And I'll say it again for emphasis...if you're willing to suck up the winters, Pittsburgh is worth a look.
Thanks. I'd prefer to freelance, but not sure yet how that will turn out. Are you striking those four off the list for the reasons I mentioned or do you have other reasons? I didn't expect to see Pittsburgh on the list, although I do have a friend there who loves it. Indeed the weather looks bad, do you think it really trumps everywhere on the list with better weather? I guess like I said ^^^ about DC, I'll do some more research.
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Originally Posted by whereiend
If single at 43 in the tech industry, why even care about FIRE? I don't think finances should be overly complicated for you with zero children. Living life as an adult is really not that expensive...
I'd probably do LA or NYC. I'm an Austinite and love the place, but I'd pick it only if you particularly liked the vibe, not just to save a few bucks on cost of living.
I care about FIRE because I would rather get to a point of independence and freedom earlier rather than later. If I didn't change anything, I'd be on the path to working for the man until retirement age. I live in a country with the 7th highest cost of living in the world, up there with Denmark, Luxembourg, and Singapore, and the 23rd highest salaries, a fraction of what they are in countries like the three aforementioned. So I'm doing very well for an Israeli, but less well than I would have done in other countries.
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Originally Posted by citidata18
I would definitely say DFW's lakes are amongst the most underrated attractions/features of any metro.
As I wrote I was told that West(ish) would suit me better. But I'm open minded at this early stage, that's why I came here. The East Coast seems to me to be a choice between bad winters and Florida. Perhaps I'm wrong, the weather is okay and I did forget the Carolinas, but I'm not sure what they have to offer over and above the places I mentioned.
As mentioned above the DC area makes the most sense in my opinion. It doesn't have the age segmentation of an Austin where at your age, you're long in the tooth. While somewhat expensive it's not SF-like in the urban burbs like Arlington which has it's own nightlife scene, walkable neighborhoods and excellent public transit. Unlike the other options you're entertaining, it's not remote in terms of several hour drives to get to the next major city. You can actually hop on an Amtrak train to Baltimore from DC's centrally located (and served by Metro transit) Union Station and explore the Inner Harbor, Fell's Point or Little Italy. The trip takes 40 minutes and is $7 each way. You can reach Philly's 30 Street Station (walking distance to downtown) or NYC's Penn Station (heart of Manhattan) in just under 2 hours or 3 hours respectively, and easily accomplished on weekends for usually around $125 roundtrip. Like the beach? It's not "close" but the beaches in Delaware are very nice (Bethany Beach, Dewey Beach or Rehoboth Beach) and a fairly reasonable 2.5 hour drive. Like mountains and outdoor activities like skiing, snowboarding, hiking or mountain biking? You can reach the Blue Ridge Mountains/Shenandoah Valley in VA in 90 minutes, as well as surprisingly great wines in Northern Virginia wine country in less than an hour. Lastly winters are mild by climatic standards with the usual chilly temperatures but rare significant snowfall and not much of the gray/dreary you recall from prior experiences. Typically it's close to three months of each season, with very nice Springs and Falls.
Visa-wise, I'd prefer to freelance and do whatever I need to do to make that happen, but on paper it's not trivial. Slightly easier (but still difficult) process-wise would be to get a job offer out there, maybe from a FAANG company. I think I'd be a good Engineering Manager at that scale, but I have heard mixed things about the cultures, the interview process means grinding things that don't matter, and it's still working for the man. Although, these are decisions of lucky people, no complaints.
I think you need to put a bit more thought into the visa situation. The US is not an easy place to work in, and there is no visa option for you to freelance unless you're getting married to a citizen or are directly related to one.
Anyways, I'd recommend the East Coast as well. DC is one of the fastest tech centers in the US.
As mentioned above the DC area makes the most sense in my opinion. It doesn't have the age segmentation of an Austin where at your age, you're long in the tooth. While somewhat expensive it's not SF-like in the urban burbs like Arlington which has it's own nightlife scene, walkable neighborhoods and excellent public transit. Unlike the other options you're entertaining, it's not remote in terms of several hour drives to get to the next major city. You can actually hop on an Amtrak train to Baltimore from DC's centrally located (and served by Metro transit) Union Station and explore the Inner Harbor, Fell's Point or Little Italy. The trip takes 40 minutes and is $7 each way. You can reach Philly's 30 Street Station (walking distance to downtown) or NYC's Penn Station (heart of Manhattan) in just under 2 hours or 3 hours respectively, and easily accomplished on weekends for usually around $125 roundtrip. Like the beach? It's not "close" but the beaches in Delaware are very nice (Bethany Beach, Dewey Beach or Rehoboth Beach) and a fairly reasonable 2.5 hour drive. Like mountains and outdoor activities like skiing, snowboarding, hiking or mountain biking? You can reach the Blue Ridge Mountains/Shenandoah Valley in VA in 90 minutes, as well as surprisingly great wines in Northern Virginia wine country in less than an hour. Lastly winters are mild by climatic standards with the usual chilly temperatures but rare significant snowfall and not much of the gray/dreary you recall from prior experiences. Typically it's close to three months of each season, with very nice Springs and Falls.
I think you need to put a bit more thought into the visa situation. The US is not an easy place to work in, and there is no visa option for you to freelance unless you're getting married to a citizen or are directly related to one.
Anyways, I'd recommend the East Coast as well. DC is one of the fastest tech centers in the US.
I'm shocked and surprised at the amount of support for DC here, but clearly I have to take it on board. I need to understand more about this cost of living thing in absolute terms, I'll probably start some sort of spreadsheet. It's still unusual for me to believe that I could live anywhere except the heart of a well-known city and not feel isolated as a new immigrant / single, but I guess things are a different scale. Tel Aviv is considered a big lively bustling city in Israel with around 450,000 residents in a country of around 9 million.
About the visa, I understand. I'm coming to work and contribute, not to sit around and scrounge. So I imagine things will work out. If it will be freelance or not, time will tell.
I supported DC because others had already mentioned it and I like to err on the side of inclusion. We don't really know much about you or your desires, so imo it's beneficial to include more and let you eliminate after more research or visiting. I lived there part-time from 2011-2014 and certainly enjoyed it. At the same time, I would guess that there are other cities that would suit you just as well that also offer warmer weather.
Re: Phoenix, I didn't tell you to strike it, so there's that. I honestly don't know too much about Phoenix, have only spent 4 days in the metro. I know it has some tech presence and I'd put it on the same tier (though lower) than ATL, HOU, DFW that are all worthwhile considerations for you.
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Originally Posted by topperdoggle
Thanks. I'd prefer to freelance, but not sure yet how that will turn out. Are you striking those four off the list for the reasons I mentioned or do you have other reasons? I didn't expect to see Pittsburgh on the list, although I do have a friend there who loves it. Indeed the weather looks bad, do you think it really trumps everywhere on the list with better weather? I guess like I said ^^^ about DC, I'll do some more research.
I struck those four cause they are specifically missing something that you are seeking. Nashville and Vegas aren't as well-rounded cities as the ones you're considering. They're actually cities I like a lot, but just not for you to live based on what you said. Portland and Seattle aren't going to offer much more than what you'd get in Austin and SF respectively, but they are much gloomier in the winter. Lots and lots of overcast days and rain. I mean maybe Seattle could be of interest since it is such a superstar for outdoor activities...your call.
Re: Pittsburgh, like I said it has clear recognition as a tech hub. And I can't imagine there is a city in the country that even comes close to the level of tech presence at such a low COL. Luis von Ahn (grade-A badass serial tech founder) based in Pittsburgh says he has to pay equivalent or higher salaries than SV to lure his engineers to Pittsburgh. I think Pittsburgh would be the type of option where you would be putting your financial goals ahead of your living desires. But it's still a pretty nice place so not like you're suffering for money. Just not choosing the ideal place from a lifestyle perspective.
Something in Texas (Fort Worth, San Antonio, Austin, or Dallas) or Nashville. Do not move to those California cities. LA and SF are cool to visit but living there is waaaayyyy different. They definitely have their pluses, but the negatives far outweigh them. For these reasons, I’d also avoid Seattle and Portland like the plague, since they don’t have the added benefit of year-round mild weather. If forced to choose, then go with San Diego, or better yet, Sacramento. They have a lot of the same maladies as these other cities, but at a more reasonable degree.
Atlanta might also be a great option if you decide the east coast is back in play. Phoenix is okay. Vegas gets old quick.
I supported DC because others had already mentioned it and I like to err on the side of inclusion. We don't really know much about you or your desires, so imo it's beneficial to include more and let you eliminate after more research or visiting. I lived there part-time from 2011-2014 and certainly enjoyed it. At the same time, I would guess that there are other cities that would suit you just as well that also offer warmer weather.
Re: Phoenix, I didn't tell you to strike it, so there's that. I honestly don't know too much about Phoenix, have only spent 4 days in the metro. I know it has some tech presence and I'd put it on the same tier (though lower) than ATL, HOU, DFW that are all worthwhile considerations for you.
I struck those four cause they are specifically missing something that you are seeking. Nashville and Vegas aren't as well-rounded cities as the ones you're considering. They're actually cities I like a lot, but just not for you to live based on what you said. Portland and Seattle aren't going to offer much more than what you'd get in Austin and SF respectively, but they are much gloomier in the winter. Lots and lots of overcast days and rain. I mean maybe Seattle could be of interest since it is such a superstar for outdoor activities...your call.
Re: Pittsburgh, like I said it has clear recognition as a tech hub. And I can't imagine there is a city in the country that even comes close to the level of tech presence at such a low COL. Luis von Ahn (grade-A badass serial tech founder) based in Pittsburgh says he has to pay equivalent or higher salaries than SV to lure his engineers to Pittsburgh. I think Pittsburgh would be the type of option where you would be putting your financial goals ahead of your living desires. But it's still a pretty nice place so not like you're suffering for money. Just not choosing the ideal place from a lifestyle perspective.
Thank you, I understand, I'll have to check out more. A friend there just told me that it's great, he was born there, we met in Israel, and he went back a few years ago. I met his cousin as well, and they told me about the good times they had in Pittsburgh. He told me stuff about some of the neighbourhoods, he said Downtown's not such a thing in Pittsburgh and it's set up more like cool neighbourhoods around Downtown. Then again, he was born there, he doesn't have to make such an effort to socialize.
If you have the energy, what do you think Nashville and Vegas lack? And as fun as Pittsburgh might be in my friends' opinion, what do you think it lacks lifestyle-wise?
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Originally Posted by _Uncommon_
Something in Texas (Fort Worth, San Antonio, Austin, or Dallas) or Nashville. Do not move to those California cities. LA and SF are cool to visit but living there is waaaayyyy different. They definitely have their pluses, but the negatives far outweigh them. For these reasons, I’d also avoid Seattle and Portland like the plague, since they don’t have the added benefit of year-round mild weather. If forced to choose, then go with San Diego, or better yet, Sacramento. They have a lot of the same maladies as these other cities, but at a more reasonable degree.
Atlanta might also be a great option if you decide the east coast is back in play. Phoenix is okay. Vegas gets old quick.
And we add San Antonio and Sacramento to the list! Wow. It's going to include so many cities by the time I'm done. Care to add some colour on those two? I appreciate what you say about LA / SF, I need to do my sums. I can only see myself in SF if I work at a big tech giant, not my preference for sure.
Nashville has live music of all types and more than any place it's size. Country first but not only. Maybe half. There are hybrids. Country pop, country rock. Traditional country, new country, country hip-hop, Americana, folk, etc. Non-hybrid rock, pop, etc. too.
Austin has places (music, restaurants & bars) where 20s mix with 30s and 40s and places that are mainly one or the other (or older). Lots to explore, sort thru to figure out your preferences.
Your list has several kinds of weather and different outdoor opportunities. You'll have to decide how important those concerns are.
In Phoenix metro, look into Scottsdale. In LA metro, Irvine has a lot of recent buzz. In San Diego area, I hear the most about the northern part.
I'm shocked and surprised at the amount of support for DC here, but clearly I have to take it on board. I need to understand more about this cost of living thing in absolute terms, I'll probably start some sort of spreadsheet. It's still unusual for me to believe that I could live anywhere except the heart of a well-known city and not feel isolated as a new immigrant / single, but I guess things are a different scale. Tel Aviv is considered a big lively bustling city in Israel with around 450,000 residents in a country of around 9 million.
About the visa, I understand. I'm coming to work and contribute, not to sit around and scrounge. So I imagine things will work out. If it will be freelance or not, time will tell.
Tel Aviv isn't really a city of 450k though; almost every from Holon, Netanya, Herzliya, and further, commute into the city everyday (and parking/driving there is unbearable). It is much more bustling compared to say, Memphis or New Orleans.
Looking through your list I'll try and add a few and give you some of my biased insight...
I'm originally from the PHX area. It is growing fast and the city is pretty segmented. If you live in Scottsdale, you'll rarely go into the city (not a horrible thing, just something to consider). I'm guessing though you may be in Tempe if you were working in tech, but I hear Scottsdale has a burgeoning scene now. (My information is far removed- I moved away as a teen, and even though I visit often, most of my information is hearsay).
Austin is great; super fun, not horribly huge, yet, but prices are rising fast. It has a great tech scene and a lot of young folks. Good BBQ too- and if you keep kosher or halal there are some mean briskets in Texas (hopefully you aren't kosher or halal, cause the pork there is decent too- doesn't hold a candle to Memphis or KC, but what can ya do?).
I'm a big fan of Houston, a lot of my family is from nearby the area. Big Israeli population there now, and I'm sure a decent number of Brits. Pretty diverse, enormous city. I prefer Houston to PHX, personally. More vivacious, better food, more diverse, weather blows kinda though.
Lastly, I'll toss in two random ones- Charlotte and NOLA. Charlotte has a pretty good economy, and while it is a bit cookie-cutter sunbelty in areas like PHX, it does have a decent core. Great weather, decent food, has a small but decent sized Israeli population as well, and a great economy.
I'm adding NOLA in as well. It really is one of the most unique cities within the US. Good food, scenes for everyone, and very much a march to the beat of your own drum kinda place. I'd recommend visiting before making the move, but it is a great place.
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Care to add some colour on those two? I appreciate what you say about LA / SF, I need to do my sums. I can only see myself in SF if I work at a big tech giant, not my preference for sure.
