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The condescending up north tone is strong in this post. Aside from Blues? Blues is literally the most important genre of music in America period. Mississippi could lay claim to being the birthplace of American music. There's no Rock-n-Roll/ R&B/ Country music without Mississippi Blues. Memphis and Chicago doesn't have the musical legacy they have without those Black Mississippians migrating to those cities.
With that said, Mississippi has a lot of problems. A LOT OF PROBLEMS. It was a state too dependent on slavery and once that was over the state full never recovered. Yet in still for a state that's so downtrodden it still has left a pretty big impact for a small state that has so much going against it. Also I'd say the Mississippi Blues Trail alone is worth at least one visit to the state. It's a shame how many Europeans and White Americans visit these Blues trails but a significant amount of Black Americans turn their nose up at the thought of visiting a piece of American and especially AA history.
As far as the topic, I don't know about the cool factor but like I said in the Boston thread a big reason why Mississippi has that racial stigma is due to historical events, real statistical data not in Mississippi favor and marketing. I mean really Louisiana and Mississippi are about the same when it comes to quality of life. Even within the history of racism in this country there about the same. But it doesn't stop people from visiting Louisiana and speaking highly of the culture. But Mississippi doesn't have a New Orleans to buffer the racial stigma. People will overlook that history if they can wander the streets drunk on bourbon street.
I don't think many Americans listen to blues, period. That's why people don't go to visit. Not because of Mississippi per se. I couldn't name you a blues artist other than BB King and Muddy Waters. I wouldn't really know blues if I heard it. I'd rather go to see Hitsville USA.
Blues is just way too long ago for most people. That's almost like saying "xyz place was the center of Ragtime music." While blues is the foundation of some musical genres the sound has gone far beyond much of anything that resembles blues. RnB-with blues in its name- is the only exception. But if I'm looking for RnB, it's Hitsville in Detroit.
Kind of my thoughts on MS. I don’t hate it I just don’t see it being a nice place to visit unless I had family to close friends there. That would make the slow pace of life and stillness feel serene.
MS doesn’t really have that golden nugget that makes you want to cut through the BS and see what it’s about. To many if not most of us it’s just-there.
Even the major part of its tourism economy - gambling is faltering due to neighboring states opening casinos. Tunica in particular has been devastated due to gambling being legalized across the river in Arkansas.
I have family there, lived there for a portion of my life and got out as soon as I could for a number of reasons. The type of conservatism there certainly isn't business friendly like other southern states. It's more about keeping people in line and the feudalistic culture and status quo going. Anything that benefits the population as a whole is immediately shot down, especially if its a threat to the Good Ole Boys who run the state - can't have too many "outsiders" coming in. There are manufacturers here and there throughout the state, but there has never been a major effort to bring highly-skilled manufacturing or labor jobs to the state, unlike Alabama or South Carolina, and it doesn't have the business friendly reputation of Texas or Georgia. The globalization of the American economy certainly didn't help deep south states like Mississippi neither. A lot of local companies that started left long ago as mergers and acquisitions swallowed them up. The state is still mostly agrarian, and the need for employees in the fields has decreased as automation has increased over the decades.
There's no equivalent to a Huntsville in the state - a city that has a large, educated population with high-paying white collar jobs, much less people with capital to create new businesses like other neighboring southern states neither. The capital and largest city, Jackson, has a lot of issues with crime (being at the intersection of 2 major interstates has made Jacktown a huge drug trafficking spot for many many years), poverty (crime there is a result of a lot of soul-crushing poverty in the area and the overall lack of opportunity), systemic racism overall throughout the state, and deals with a hostile state government. Unlike other cities that deal with this, there's not enough business interests who can curtail this somewhat. It also never had the cultural cache that say, Memphis has to be on the national radar. Sure, there's blues, a rich musical heritage, and barbecue in Jackson, but it was never Memphis, which historically has been the "big city" destination for residents of the Delta, where much of that heritage comes from rather than Jackson itself. Louisiana and its unique cultural assets are right next door, and New Orleans is only 3 hrs from Jackson, so if you're on the road to New Orleans from Memphis, there's really no reason to stop in Jackson unless you're trying to get gas. Many opt to go on the Blues Trail throughout the Delta between the two cities instead. The major state universities are either to the north or to the south of Jackson, so while there are colleges there, including a large HBCU, there was never the equivalent of an LSU or FSU in the city.
Also, it doesn't have the scenic offerings that other southern states have - North Carolina, Tennessee, and Georgia have mountains. Neighboring Alabama has beautiful beaches and the Florida Panhandle is nearby as well. Memphis has a bigger cultural output, and New Orleans is right down the road...The beaches in Biloxi/Gulfport are artificial and are on a shallow sound with brown water rather than the open gulf due to the barrier islands off the coast. If you're not a heavy gambler, there's really no reason to go there when the Florida Panhandle and Gulf Shores, AL are close enough to drive to. Yes, the trees and greenery are nice to look at, but you can get that in neighboring southern states, plus much more.
Yes, the pace of life is slower there than most places, the cost of living is low (and so are the wages), yes there are "friendly" people (I find a lot of what is considered southern hospitality to be cloying, prying, and fake tbh, and if you're not conformist, a little "different," or not uber-religious, said hospitality disappears with the quickness), yes there's GREAT food there, but for the average person in America, Mississippi is just there. And speaking as a black man, I know black people from other southern states who look down on Mississippi as a way to feel better about where they're from. Regarding race relations, you won't be called the N-word all the time, and white people may be friendly to your face, but good luck having compelling, deep friendships with them. Are there exceptions? Sure, but hey, that's pretty universal in America, innit? I will say that blacks and whites have more familiarity with each other in Mississippi than they do in the Midwest, and have similar cultural mores (religious, love to cook, family gatherings, watching football) more than other places.
Also, regarding black retirees and people's heritage there, Mississippi's catchment area would be either Chicagoland, Michigan, or Los Angeles, as many Mississippians high-tailed it for those destinations during the Great Migration. Northeasterners tend to have more roots in Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia, so Mississippi typically isn't on the radar for people from that region. I remember a ton of Chicagoans coming down to Mississippi for the summer to see relatives and Grandparents who stayed put. Much is made of black Chicagoans leaving there and coming down to Mississippi to retire, but a lot of them high-tail it for Arizona or Texas instead nowadays. I've noticed some of those connections gradually fading over time (but never really going away)...Your average black Gen-Z probably still has his Grandma up in Chicago, and Great-Grandma who migrated up there in the 40s and 50s is probably dead or getting too old to travel back home.
Anyway, Mississippi's reputation is a result of many things, and yes, many people use the state as an example of what not to be, unfortunately. It's pretty much America in miniature regarding its issues with poverty, systemic racism, and lack of opportunities for large swaths of the population. Mississippians are very aware and sensitive about its reputation, and while I don't blame them, the feeling that life is passing you by while you're there is pretty palpable...People like it the way it is and really don't want too much change there. As long as that is a factor, Mississippi will be seen as somewhere to shat upon will be there for the time being. Saying that "hating" on Mississippi being cool is a bit shallow and basic...most people don't really give a care about the state to "hate" on it that much - much of it is rooted in indifference, ignorance, wanting to forget the place exist overall, and a way to feel better about issues in their states.
Last edited by biscuit_head; 12-17-2020 at 08:43 AM..
Mississippi’s racial past is wretched, it spends far too little in public funds on health, education, and infrastructure, it has virtually no nationally known tourist attractions or sizable cities, it’s poor, it has hurricanes, and aside from the blues and William Faulkner it has made no recognizable cultural contributions to the nation — though the blues do count for a lot in pop culture.
You might not hate Mississippi, but there isn’t much there to like.
You should be ashamed of yourself as a black man that you even said something this stupid about a state that was detrimental to the history of our people, our contributions to this country, and the civil rights movement. The only reason you live in New York and have lived in places like Detroit is probably because you're the descendent of a black family that migrated from places like Mississippi to the North during the early 20th century. Are you aware that Mississippi was one of the first states that descendants of black slaves owned land and were farmers after the emancipation? Many of which STILL own large swaths of land and homes that were passed down through the generations. Nobody's saying it's some progressive modern utopia but as a black man to fix your face and slam the state where many of our ancestors were held and the home of some of the first waves of the greatest genres of music that touched the world from blues, ragtime, jazz, gospel which led to pop music as it stands today just shows your incredible ignorance.
But if I'm looking for RnB, it's Hitsville in Detroit.
Gamble & Huff (Philadelphia International) deserve just as much recognition for African-American's musical contributions as Hitsville and Stax Records. In fact, I'd argue they (Gamble & Huff) had more crossover appeal than Hitsville and Stax too.
Songs from the latter 2 companies had more of a gospel/choir-type sound (which, admittingly, doesn't have much appeal outside the black community).
Conversely, Gamble & Huff prided themselves on making "good music," which is why they brought on classically-trained musicians such as Thomas Bell and Norman Harris. Their songs differed from the ones produced at Hitsville and Stax in that the arrangements consisted of lush big band orchestrations with sweeping strings and piercing horns. This had huge appeal with older white listeners
They tend to not get the same recognition as Hitsville because their later songs were credited for discovering Disco, which music snobs thumb their nose at because of Disco's driving rythmic beat (although their Disco songs had strong appeal with hispanic/latino listeners).
Last edited by citidata18; 12-17-2020 at 09:09 AM..
I feel like Ive pretty much been proven right based on what I posted earlier in this thread. Mississippi is hated. Mississippi has a very checkered past with racism and poverty. No one is going to argue that, but the state is so much more than that now. You have emerging gems like Hattiesburg and the Mississippi Gulf Coast is a jewel on its own. I was in Biloxi a couple of weekends ago and had the time of my life. Its not just a bunch of rednecks either. They have a lot of intellectuals there that are proud of that area and what it offers.
Biscuit_head did bring up a very interesting point. What separates Alabama from Mississippi is Huntsville. Birmingham might be a lot larger but its demographically very similar to being a huge Jackson. Huntsville has a lot of white collar jobs and high paying jobs. There really isnt an answer for that in Mississippi.
Even the major part of its tourism economy - gambling is faltering due to neighboring states opening casinos. Tunica in particular has been devastated due to gambling being legalized across the river in Arkansas.
I have family there, lived there for a portion of my life and got out as soon as I could for a number of reasons. The type of conservatism there certainly isn't business friendly like other southern states. It's more about keeping people in line and the feudalistic culture and status quo going. Anything that benefits the population as a whole is immediately shot down, especially if its a threat to the Good Ole Boys who run the state - can't have too many "outsiders" coming in. There are manufacturers here and there throughout the state, but there has never been a major effort to bring highly-skilled manufacturing or labor jobs to the state, unlike Alabama or South Carolina, and it doesn't have the business friendly reputation of Texas or Georgia. The globalization of the American economy certainly didn't help deep south states like Mississippi neither. A lot of local companies that started left long ago as mergers and acquisitions swallowed them up. The state is still mostly agrarian, and the need for employees in the fields has decreased as automation has increased over the decades.
There's no equivalent to a Huntsville in the state - a city that has a large, educated population with high-paying white collar jobs, much less people with capital to create new businesses like other neighboring southern states neither. The capital and largest city, Jackson, has a lot of issues with crime (being at the intersection of 2 major interstates has made Jacktown a huge drug trafficking spot for many many years), poverty (crime there is a result of a lot of soul-crushing poverty in the area and the overall lack of opportunity), systemic racism overall throughout the state, and deals with a hostile state government. Unlike other cities that deal with this, there's not enough business interests who can curtail this somewhat. It also never had the cultural cache that say, Memphis has to be on the national radar. Sure, there's blues, a rich musical heritage, and barbecue in Jackson, but it was never Memphis, which historically has been the "big city" destination for residents of the Delta, where much of that heritage comes from rather than Jackson itself. Louisiana and its unique cultural assets are right next door, and New Orleans is only 3 hrs from Jackson, so if you're on the road to New Orleans from Memphis, there's really no reason to stop in Jackson unless you're trying to get gas. Many opt to go on the Blues Trail throughout the Delta between the two cities instead. The major state universities are either to the north or to the south of Jackson, so while there are colleges there, including a large HBCU, there was never the equivalent of an LSU or FSU in the city.
Also, it doesn't have the scenic offerings that other southern states have - North Carolina, Tennessee, and Georgia have mountains. Neighboring Alabama has beautiful beaches and the Florida Panhandle is nearby as well. Memphis has a bigger cultural output, and New Orleans is right down the road...The beaches in Biloxi/Gulfport are artificial and are on a shallow sound with brown water rather than the open gulf due to the barrier islands off the coast. If you're not a heavy gambler, there's really no reason to go there when the Florida Panhandle and Gulf Shores, AL are close enough to drive to. Yes, the trees and greenery are nice to look at, but you can get that in neighboring southern states, plus much more.
Yes, the pace of life is slower there than most places, the cost of living is low (and so are the wages), yes there are "friendly" people (I find a lot of what is considered southern hospitality to be cloying, prying, and fake tbh, and if you're not conformist, a little "different," or not uber-religious, said hospitality disappears with the quickness), yes there's GREAT food there, but for the average person in America, Mississippi is just there. And speaking as a black man, I know black people from other southern states who look down on Mississippi as a way to feel better about where they're from. Regarding race relations, you won't be called the N-word all the time, and white people may be friendly to your face, but good luck having compelling, deep friendships with them. Are there exceptions? Sure, but hey, that's pretty universal in America, innit? I will say that blacks and whites have more familiarity with each other in Mississippi than they do in the Midwest, and have similar cultural mores (religious, love to cook, family gatherings, watching football) more than other places.
Also, regarding black retirees and people's heritage there, Mississippi's catchment area would be either Chicagoland, Michigan, or Los Angeles, as many Mississippians high-tailed it for those destinations during the Great Migration. Northeasterners tend to have more roots in Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia, so Mississippi typically isn't on the radar for people from that region. I remember a ton of Chicagoans coming down to Mississippi for the summer to see relatives and Grandparents who stayed put. Much is made of black Chicagoans leaving there and coming down to Mississippi to retire, but a lot of them high-tail it for Arizona or Texas instead nowadays. I've noticed some of those connections gradually fading over time (but never really going away)...Your average black Gen-Z probably still has his Grandma up in Chicago, and Great-Grandma who migrated up there in the 40s and 50s is probably dead or getting too old to travel back home.
Anyway, Mississippi's reputation is a result of many things, and yes, many people use the state as an example of what not to be, unfortunately. It's pretty much America in miniature regarding its issues with poverty, systemic racism, and lack of opportunities for large swaths of the population. Mississippians are very aware and sensitive about its reputation, and while I don't blame them, the feeling that life is passing you by while you're there is pretty palpable...People like it the way it is and really don't want too much change there. As long as that is a factor, Mississippi will be seen as somewhere to shat upon will be there for the time being. Saying that "hating" on Mississippi being cool is a bit shallow and basic...most people don't really give a care about the state to "hate" on it that much - much of it is rooted in indifference, ignorance, wanting to forget the place exist overall, and a way to feel better about issues in their states.
In terms of the bolded, this is very true, but my dad and his family was an exception due to a great grandmother coming to Upstate NY in the 1920's. Another cousin on that side of the family has family from the same town in the Rochester area on her dad's side. I have met people that came from Clarksdale and other parts of MS in NY as well.
With that said, many also went to St. Louis, Wisconsin(I believe Milwaukee and Racine) and Waterloo IA from my his hometown. Some that come back down south also go to Tennessee.
I don't think many Americans listen to blues, period. That's why people don't go to visit. Not because of Mississippi per se. I couldn't name you a blues artist other than BB King and Muddy Waters. I wouldn't really know blues if I heard it. I'd rather go to see Hitsville USA.
Blues is just way too long ago for most people. That's almost like saying "xyz place was the center of Ragtime music." While blues is the foundation of some musical genres the sound has gone far beyond much of anything that resembles blues. RnB-with blues in its name- is the only exception. But if I'm looking for RnB, it's Hitsville in Detroit.
Blues is still pretty popular depending on what region your in though. Maybe you being from Boston are not aware of the impact Blues has had but it's still a thing. Probably more so in the south than anything. I mean there's young Blues artist that perform all over the world but because there not pop culture icons for some reason the general public outside the south thinks Blue isn't relevant.
And unlike Ragtime, Blues still floods clubs, hole in the walls, juke joints, lounges, radio stations, block parties , family reunions, fish fries, cook outs all throughout the south and midwest. Not to mention the hundreds of Blues festivals all across the country and even in Europe. Plus not to long ago you had plenty of Hip-hop artist like Three 6 Mafia, David Banner, Big Krit, Pimp C sampling blues records keeping the sound relevant for younger generations. Yes you can visit Hitsville but why just visit one piece of our history? They all play in part in contributing to our rich culture.
I don't think many Americans listen to blues, period. That's why people don't go to visit. Not because of Mississippi per se. I couldn't name you a blues artist other than BB King and Muddy Waters. I wouldn't really know blues if I heard it. I'd rather go to see Hitsville USA.
Blues is just way too long ago for most people. That's almost like saying "xyz place was the center of Ragtime music." While blues is the foundation of some musical genres the sound has gone far beyond much of anything that resembles blues. RnB-with blues in its name- is the only exception. But if I'm looking for RnB, it's Hitsville in Detroit.
Modern R&B doesn't really resemble blues anyway
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