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Hello, my wife is finishing up dental school and I'm working in tech. I have a few criteria that I'm looking for in a city but I understand as well that there is no perfect city. I will first list the criteria followed by my research of cities. If you have any advice or if you think my analysis of cities is unfair please let me know.
Criteria
- Not tons of crime, especially property crime. I see the break-in news with cars in Bay Area and that is very off putting. I have lived in Chicago for a brief period so it's not like it needs to be 100% safe, but something reasonable.
- We really do enjoy urban amenities. Diverse food options that are open late, popular EDM concerts/festivals, and bars/clubs.
- A driving culture, we are not fans of public transport and traffic isn't a huge deal as long as we can get a commute under 45 minutes.
- This has been the hardest to find data for, but something good for dentistry. Both for employment and eventually opening an office. I've seen lots of conflicting things, like people saying to avoid California and Florida like the plague but insanely high dental salaries (relatively) and tons of job opportunities in the Bay Area. The business climate and sheer number of offices is not a secret however.
- A tech job presence would be nice but not a necessity as I currently work remotely.
- Mild weather, sunny, more on the side of hot. Humidity really isn't that big of an issue for us, extreme cold and dead trees everywhere is. Places like Colorado may be an exception due to the dry cold and quickly melting snow. If somewhere like Arizona, then it needs to be town that doesn't have desert sand for a back yard.
- Beautiful nature for hiking, as in big mountains. I want to get into water sports like jet skiing too, but it's ok if it is in a lake or river. Bonus if it's a coast of course.
- A 3000+ square foot home for under $1.5m that isn't super old. I understand in some regions this is a lot and in others it isn't, the size doesn't have to be exactly 3000 square feet but something around this.
- Politically mild, decent schools, and 'healthy'.
Research thus far
- San Francisco Bay Area: Beautiful place with great nature and urban amenities but not affordable at all. Great for jobs but not so sure about business (dentist wife). Extreme crime. Intense political tension. Pollution and homelessness.
- Los Angeles: Similar to SFBA but a little cheaper and worse jobs.
- San Diego: A more low-key Los Angeles but cost is same as LA suburbs and jobs are even worse especially for dentistry.
- Seattle: Very dark and rainy, not a fan of the climate. Amazing for tech jobs and the nature is beautiful, but not sure how it is for dentistry. Great urban amenities all around. Lots of crime, homelessness, and cost of living is pretty high.
- Portland: Same problems as Seattle with a weaker tech job market (unsure how it is for dentistry), slightly cheaper, and way worse urban amenities.
- Miami: Wonderful place, pretty bad for tech jobs and I am unsure how it is for dentistry, but I assume it isn't amazing. Urban amenities are great (except food) as is the beach, the nature/hiking could be better but could live without due to the sheer amount of water. Hurricanes aren't ideal but it's best to travel during the months of hurricane season anyway. Not super affordable but in the metro I think I may find something within our budget. Schools are not amazing.
- Tampa Bay Area: In my opinion, a massive scam. People think it's great vacation destination (as did we) but the red tide issue and gulf pollution via farming dumping into the Mississippi river negates the positives of the beach, was not fan of beach dead fish, coughing from air, and vultures. Urban amenities are also lacking.
- Raleigh/Charlotte: Weather is mild which is great, and besides the food (kind of) the urban amenities are terrible at least in Raleigh. The nature is alright but nothing captivating like the west and it is far from the coast.
- Houstin/Dallas/Austin: Weather is on hotter side which is great, but the nature is non-existent. The urban amenities are great. Job situation for me is decent, not sure about dentistry. Right by the polluted Gulf so not particularly interested in that. Not huge fan of odd laws like banned abortions either. Safety is questionable too, lots of tension between different political ideologies and illegal immigrants is not amazing either. Texas keeps popping for shootings, don't think it's the gun laws but because of this tension.
- Las Vegas: Urban amenities are great, nature is great, and relatively affordable. Job market not great for tech not sure about dentistry. Schools suck.
- Phoenix: Urban amenities are great, nature is great, and relatively affordable. Job market is ok for tech not sure about dentistry. Schools really suck. Not sure how easy it is to have a home with a yard that has grass instead of desert rocks/sand.
- Boise: Too rural, no urban amenities, and brutal winters.
- DC/MD/VA: In some ways almost perfect, has lots of urban amenities, lots of suburbs so doesn't seem so hard to have dental office, lots of tech jobs, mildish climate, and houses are not too crazy especially in the suburbs. Nature leaves a lot to be desired (Shenandoah doesn't shine a light to anything out west). Not sure about this one but it's definitely in top 5.
- NYC Metro: Top tier urban amenities, amazing job opportunities for tech, not sure about dentistry. Brutal winters, the homes are very expensive and also very old as with most in Northeast. Nature is okay but being on the coast is nice.
- Boston Metro: Similar to NYC except much less urban amenities (still good though), slightly cheaper, and much rougher winters.
- Denver/Boulder: Great job market for tech, not sure about dentistry. Very landlocked. Beautiful world-class nature. Not super expensive. Great urban amenities. Mild weather (kind of). I'm concerned about health here though. Radiation, being one of the worst places for skin I noticed how terribly the residents age, stillbirth numbers, underweight child numbers, and anything else that comes with living in a climate like this.
Did I miss any great cities? Was my analysis unfair? Did I miss anything? What would you recommend for our criteria (especially the dental job/dental office one)?
- Seattle: Very dark and rainy, not a fan of the climate. Amazing for tech jobs and the nature is beautiful, but not sure how it is for dentistry. Great urban amenities all around. Lots of crime, homelessness, and cost of living is pretty high.
- Portland: Same problems as Seattle with a weaker tech job market (unsure how it is for dentistry), slightly cheaper, and way worse urban amenities.
...
- Phoenix: Urban amenities are great, nature is great, and relatively affordable. Job market is ok for tech not sure about dentistry. Schools really suck. Not sure how easy it is to have a home with a yard that has grass instead of desert rocks/sand.
A few comments on your analysis: I'm very familiar with all these cities and in terms of urban amenities, I'd say Portland is ahead of Phoenix and not really far behind Seattle. Things like green spaces , breweries, bars, record stores, movie theaters, live music venues, etc... Portland has more of per capita than a vast majority of cities.
It's fairly common in Phoenix for a yard to have grass rather than native desert landscaping. Percent of homeowners that use turf is steadily decreasing as water usage in the area becomes more of a concern, but it's still something that I see all the time.
If you want big mountains for hiking and no dead trees, I would not consider anywhere east of the Rockies. Based on what you're saying, Denver seems overall like the best option for you. I'd imagine applying sunscreen routinely would go a long way in mitigating harmful UV rays.
I'd check out Washington County in Oregon. It's right outside of Portland so you avoid the worst of the property crime and homelessness and the tech job market is really strong. Population growth is really strong and the per capita income is high so I would assume the market in dentistry is both strong and growing. You could live in suburbia and easily be in Portland and all it has to offer in 25-40 minutes.
- Tampa Bay Area: In my opinion, a massive scam. People think it's great vacation destination (as did we) but the red tide issue and gulf pollution via farming dumping into the Mississippi river negates the positives of the beach, was not fan of beach dead fish, coughing from air, and vultures. Urban amenities are also lacking.
Did I miss any great cities? Was my analysis unfair? Did I miss anything? What would you recommend for our criteria (especially the dental job/dental office one)?
Yeah, I’d say that’s unfair. Sorry you had a bad trip to the Tampa Bay Area, but it was just bad timing really. Red tide isn’t the norm.
I think one of the nicer areas of Seattle might be your best bet. Look into Bellevue and Redmond. I get the sense you won’t like anywhere on the east coast due to not having a dramatic enough landscape, which is fair. Seattle isn’t perfect, but probably your best bet.
Boise doesn't have brutal winters and are typically more mellow than winters in Denver and Salt Lake. It isn't rural either with a metro population of nearly 800,000 and has urban amenities including a diverse dining scene and growing tech sector. The city fits almost all of your criteria. It's one of the best cities for nature lovers and outdoor activities.
But, it is also one of the fastest growing cities in the nation, so a few less people moving in might be a good thing.
Urbanity is the killing factor. You want stuff open late at night which is where and when most of the crime/sketchiness occurs. It didn't make your list for some reason but you might consider Nashville. Otherwise DC/Northern Virginia is a solid pick and in reference to Shenandoah, it's a valley and not like the NC/VA Blue Ridge Mountains. While not size-queen dramatic like "out West" it's much older in terms of geological development and appreciated by those who get the overall picture.
A few comments on your analysis: I'm very familiar with all these cities and in terms of urban amenities, I'd say Portland is ahead of Phoenix and not really far behind Seattle. Things like green spaces , breweries, bars, record stores, movie theaters, live music venues, etc... Portland has more of per capita than a vast majority of cities.
It's fairly common in Phoenix for a yard to have grass rather than native desert landscaping. Percent of homeowners that use turf is steadily decreasing as water usage in the area becomes more of a concern, but it's still something that I see all the time.
If you want big mountains for hiking and no dead trees, I would not consider anywhere east of the Rockies. Based on what you're saying, Denver seems overall like the best option for you. I'd imagine applying sunscreen routinely would go a long way in mitigating harmful UV rays.
Both Portland and Denver seem like great places that offer a lot of the amenities we’re looking for, thanks for your response. A few questions about both:
For Portland, where do people go to escape the darkness in the winter? Is there darkness in seasons outside of winter? Having lived in chicago and northeast the cold was terrible but in some ways the gray skies are what made it feel so long, depressing, and hard to get out of bed. Darkness alone is better than darkness and cold together, but I’ve heard it’s much worse in the PNW than on the east coast and midwest.
For Denver, the sun and mountain situation is amazing, but where do people typically go to escape the snowy cold? Anything within a day drive? Also, besides the UV rays, are there other health conditions that I should worry about that is specific to the climate? Specifically around lifespan, cancer, and going through pregnancy?
I'd check out Washington County in Oregon. It's right outside of Portland so you avoid the worst of the property crime and homelessness and the tech job market is really strong. Population growth is really strong and the per capita income is high so I would assume the market in dentistry is both strong and growing. You could live in suburbia and easily be in Portland and all it has to offer in 25-40 minutes.
Wow good point, I was unaware that Oregon had other tech metros outside of Portland but you’re right, lots of jobs in that county both in tech and dentistry. Thanks for your response. Similar to my post above, the nature of this region does seem great in photos, but I’m concerned about the constant darkness and frequent rain. Where do people go to escape this type of dark climate especially in the winter? Is it much worse than the northeast and Midwest in winter?
Northern Nevada. Reno if you like bigger cities. Winter is similar to Boise.
Thanks for the suggestion. A little bit more rural than what we are looking for though, but that aside it does seem like a great place.
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