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I think it's evident that in cities like Buffalo and Providence- city limits matter, a lot. There's usually a city vs suburb thing in these older northern metros that doesn't exist in the Sunbelt.
Its not by coincidence that cities like that are hyper-minority and the suburbs are hyper white. It matters and is a big thin in those metros especially for locals and in local culture.
Yeah, while it is changing, as first ring suburbs become more diverse, that is more of a slow, but steady thing.
It also doesn't hurt given the historical context of Southern metros in terms of their black population and Western metros in terms of their Hispanic(primarily Mexican), Asian and in some cases Native American populations.
I feel like the tendency for eastern metros to have much broader Census definitions than western metros (i.e. more rural counties included) has to be a factor here.
I feel like the tendency for eastern metros to have much broader Census definitions than western metros (i.e. more rural counties included) has to be a factor here.
Not sure if that would be a factor or not since it’s a matter of geographic size. Even with the inclusion of more rural counties in eastern MSAs, Western metros still tend to cover more land area due to the sheer size of the counties. My guess is that it’s the same urban/rural mix. It doesn’t change the pattern of more diverse core cities/more homogenous suburbs. For instance Riverside may be the largest metro by land area, but it’s still one of the most diverse. Geographic proximity matters more than the inclusions of rural counties that typically don’t contain enough people to tip the overall scales IMO.
I think it's evident that in cities like Buffalo and Providence- city limits matter, a lot. There's usually a city vs suburb thing in these older northern metros that doesn't exist in the Sunbelt.
Its not by coincidence that cities like that are hyper-minority and the suburbs are hyper white. It matters and is a big thin in those metros especially for locals and in local culture.
It's not like the sunbelt never had this dynamic, it's simply dissipated over the years as whites have gentrified inner city areas and minorities have moved into suburban areas.
If anything, I wonder if the difference is simply that the sunbelt has grown much faster than the northeast and especially rust belt areas. With that growth has come progress on this front, whereas the slower growing cities have better preserved the 1950-1980 white flight era.
It's not like the sunbelt never had this dynamic, it's simply dissipated over the years as whites have gentrified inner city areas and minorities have moved into suburban areas.
If anything, I wonder if the difference is simply that the sunbelt has grown much faster than the northeast and especially rust belt areas. With that growth has come progress on this front, whereas the slower growing cities have better preserved the 1950-1980 white flight era.
This dynamic was established in northern cities even in the 1920s during the first wave of suburbanization, most of the suburban sunbelt developments were built after the fair housing act. These suburbs have been more diverse for longer and many were never formally legally segregated. That's why you see the high concentrations that you do. I don't think it's that sunbelt cities are, more gentrified in their core than rust belt cities.
Development patterns, local for of government, slower population growth in the modern era, legacy of redlining and relatively dramatic physical and environmental contrast between city and suburb all contribute.
I was surprised to not see cities like Portland, Denver, Austin, and even Nashville on there, while St. Louis.
I was also surprised to not see Atlanta and Detroit in the least white list.
Again, cause Cities are very different than suburban metros... Detroit is closer to being on the "whitest list" which obviously obscures what Detroit is actually like....
I was surprised to not see cities like Portland, Denver, Austin, and even Nashville on there, while St. Louis.
I was also surprised to not see Atlanta and Detroit in the least white list.
Portland was a surprise not seeing it in the top 10 for most white, since it has a small black population and a relatively small Hispanic population, especially compared to most West Coast metros. But it has a pretty big Asian population. Though, I never would have expected Columbus, or St. Louis, to be more white than Portland.
Denver and Austin have significant Hispanic populations so that's why they weren't a surprise to me. Nashville has a big black population and I'm assuming a growing Hispanic and Asian one (since it's a booming area), but to me seeing a Southern metro on the whitest end would have been the bigger shock to me.
Detroit really isn't a surprise not showing up on the least white since while it has a large black percentage, it has a low Hispanic and Asian percent. But if you also included "white (non Arabic)", Detroit's white percentage would go down significantly as close to 10 percent would be Arab, which for the most part are classified as white and seemingly that group still is marking white for census purposes (unlike Latino/Hispanics which made a huge shift in classifying themselves from white, or black in the case of Afro-Latinos, to multi-racial).
There is no metro that is even close to Detroit when it comes to Arabs. I believe on a percent basis for 1 million-plus metros, Cleveland, Boston or Chicago would be next but only at about 2 or 3 percent of the total compared to Detroit which if it isn't already at 10 percent, it's closing in on that.
Edit: FWIW, here is a clear example of Arabs mainly marking white. Would you consider Dearborn, Michigan, to be an overwhelmingly white city? It's upward of 40 percent Arab, yet when looking it up on the 2020 census, the numbers show that it is 86 percent "white alone" and only 2.5 percent Asian, 5 percent multi-racial and 1.3 percent other.
Last edited by ClevelandBrown; 01-03-2022 at 04:03 PM..
This dynamic was established in northern cities even in the 1920s during the first wave of suburbanization, most of the suburban sunbelt developments were built after the fair housing act. These suburbs have been more diverse for longer and many were never formally legally segregated. That's why you see the high concentrations that you do. I don't think it's that sunbelt cities are, more gentrified in their core than rust belt cities.
Development patterns, local for of government, slower population growth in the modern era, legacy of redlining and relatively dramatic physical and environmental contrast between city and suburb all contribute.
To be fair Providence was like 3% Black in 1960. It’s not like the city was black and the suburbs were white. I wouldn’t be shocked in some random town like Bristol or Cumberland had a higher black population proportion than Providence proper sometime in the 1930-1970 range. I do agree about the Midwest (and to an extent Boston) which has big black populations in the 1940-1970 range.
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