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You’re going to have to breakdown your methodology for this. That explanation does not explain your methodology. You also need to show the raw number between the ACS (which should be 2011 and 2010 because 2011 is a 5-year ACS and 2010 is a 1-year) for us to actually see what you did here lol…
Also, if you’re using COL, you need to use the areas where Black people live in each region because there is a major difference across metro areas. For example, north Atlanta and Fairfax county Virginia are completely different than the southside of Atlanta or Prince George’s county.
No, there was a 2010 5 year estimate.
No, I don’t need to show where black people live in each city. You’re the one that used city proper as the metric. I’m only going forward in that manner. I’m on record as saying I thought that was not a good way to measure this. I suggested this either needed to be at the neighborhood level or at the urban area level because there is no way to apples to apples compare cities.
As for methodology, I spelled that out. I also expressed that the comparisons were harsh because of the way income levels are broken down by the Census and ACS. It is RIDICULOUS to not account for inflation or cost of living when considering what is middle class.
Perhaps you could also use the national figure for the median household size, which is essentially 2.5. So, that could help determine what is middle class, then go from there.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-14-2022 at 08:28 PM..
I don't understand how you can measure middle class growth if only taking into account 2020 cost of living but not 2010. Either both decades need to have COL included, or none - otherwise the comparison will be greatly skewed, especially for cities that had large changes in COL.
I don't understand how you can measure middle class growth if only taking into account 2020 cost of living but not 2010. Either both decades need to have COL included, or none - otherwise the comparison will be greatly skewed, especially for cities that had large changes in COL.
But I did. I specifically mentioned that. I said that I compared the value of the dollar in 2020 and 2010. I took the median household income from 2020, transcribed it into 2010 dollars, then counted the growth between them. I also factored in cost of living based on that.
Did you factor the cost of living where Black people actually live?
Again, you created the topic to involve cities. The parameter you mentioned in your OP was not where black people live within the city. You said:
"Which city propers are gaining the Black middle-class? We hear so much about a few cities, but what about the other city propers in America? What are the top 10 city propers in America for middle-class Black household growth? "
This is a measurement based off of city proper, not neighborhood. If you're only interested in cost of living, inflation, and gains solely on black majority neighborhoods, that wasn't laid out. After all, black people live a lot of places in cities. If a neighborhood is 30% black how do you calculate it compared to one that is 80% black? What about only 10% black? Do we not count those neighborhoods? The parameter mentioned was city proper, not specific neighborhoods.
Was the way I did it perfect? Of course not, but the data laid out prior made no account for inflation or cost of living so that was also not perfect. Hell, IMO once we only isolate city propers it is impossible to do any valuable comparison because there is no way to apples to apples compare city propers.
Again, you created the topic to involve cities. The parameter you mentioned in your OP was not where black people live within the city. You said:
"Which city propers are gaining the Black middle-class? We hear so much about a few cities, but what about the other city propers in America? What are the top 10 city propers in America for middle-class Black household growth? "
This is a measurement based off of city proper, not neighborhood. If you're only interested in cost of living, inflation, and gains solely on black majority neighborhoods, that wasn't laid out. After all, black people live a lot of places in cities. If a neighborhood is 30% black how do you calculate it compared to one that is 80% black? What about only 10% black? Do we not count those neighborhoods? The parameter mentioned was city proper, not specific neighborhoods.
Was the way I did it perfect? Of course not, but the data laid out prior made no account for inflation or cost of living so that was also not perfect. Hell, IMO once we only isolate city propers it is impossible to do any valuable comparison because there is no way to apples to apples compare city propers.
The problem is, you can’t quantify COL without using housing. Housing is extremely expensive in many cities where White or Asian people live, but cheaper in segregated cities. To be clear, using COL requires you to actually factor in what people pay in different parts of cities. There is like a $500,000 swing in some cities for the same house.
No, I don’t need to show where black people live in each city. You’re the one that used city proper as the metric. I’m only going forward in that manner. I’m on record as saying I thought that was not a good way to measure this. I suggested this either needed to be at the neighborhood level or at the urban area level because there is no way to apples to apples compare cities.
As for methodology, I spelled that out. I also expressed that the comparisons were harsh because of the way income levels are broken down by the Census and ACS. It is RIDICULOUS to not account for inflation or cost of living when considering what is middle class.
That's not the problem, you and I also argued about COL related to housing which is by far the largest expense. Have you ever owned a house? Property taxes have the biggest impact on your monthly payment.
Let's take Third Ward in Houston versus Ward 7 in DC:
It is cheaper to buy a house in Ward 7 in DC than Third Ward in Houston!
Also, just an FYI, DC will absolutely have lower home insurance than Houston so the mortgage for DC is actually too high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below...
But cost of living is a factor. What it means to have $75,000 in Houston is completely different than DC, Boston, and NYC. That amount is barely middle class in those other cities. Currently $67,000 is the median household income. I will use Fort Worth is a baseline with the income of $67,000 because its cost of living is very close to the national average. Then I will take the amount in the cities listed to compute what the middle class income would be. Below are the incomes needed in other cities for the $67,000 in Fort Worth.
You still sure about that?
Last edited by MDAllstar; 07-15-2022 at 12:56 AM..
That's not the problem, you and I also argued about COL related to housing which is by far the largest expense. Have you ever owned a house? Property taxes have the biggest impact on your monthly payment.
Let's take Third Ward in Houston versus Ward 7 in DC:
It is cheaper to buy a house in Ward 7 in DC than Third Ward in Houston!
Also, just an FYI, DC will absolutely have lower home insurance than Houston so the mortgage for DC is actually too high.
You still sure about that?
Can we say manipulative information?
You should probably be completely honest about the numbers you post instead of misleading people so you can trump up D.C. once again. You posted the average home price for the entire zip code of 77004. While Greater Third Ward is no longer affordable due to gentrification, it's still disingenuous to include the entire zip code which covers parts of Midtown and the Museum district.
Neither one would be considered really that affordable but you could probably still get a more affordable fixer upper SFH in Third Ward compared to what you could get for about that same price and same condition in Ward 7.
With that said though, you cherry picked one example. Third Ward is in the heart of Houston's city center. Adjacent to Downtown/Midtown/Eado/Museum district. That's not even comparable to Ward 7 which is in what SE DC? Also All Above did say Houston and not specifically Third Ward one of the more expensive areas in Houston now.
Let's compare Ward 7 to Acres Home. Acres Home is still a predominately Black neighborhood seeing a rise of new homes popping up. There's also a slight uptick with middle class Black families moving in those areas. I have a couple of friends who recently bought homes in Acres Home through a black owned construction company (J. G. Hollins Builders).
Much more affordable homes than any predominately Black neighborhood in D.C. Also I'd probably throw in Independence Heights too but than again if it's not 80% to a 100% African American than it doesn't count.
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