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What cities in America have low property taxes? Let's start there honestly. It's a question Black people rarely ask themselves, but it is so important! As your house appreciates, how do you expect to pay your taxes if the rate is over 1.0%?
Here are a few southern metros. It looks like Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami, and Jackson are the best choices for Black people to earn net worth from their homes because they all have low property taxes. Those cities will keep your money in your pocket. The texas cities are going to experience massive displacement over the next decade if they don't lower their property taxes.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 07-21-2022 at 12:59 PM..
Middletown, NY has an even higher property tax rate at 2.590%. A $250,000 house has a $6,475 annual tax bill. That is $539.58 per month added to your mortgage if you buy a house there. When we talk about building wealth, we should be pointing our Black middle-class households to areas with low property taxes regardless of where they are located.
This isn't about being in a big city or small city, this is about Black excellence, and we can't be great paying crazy high property taxes. It hurts our net worth as a people. We are talking about generational net worth loss over the last 400 years of oppression in America.
It's not what the house costs, it's the mortgage payment.
Wow...We are really moving the goalposts, for real. There are multiple ways to accumulate wealth and in NY State, the property tax rate will depend on the homeowner due to property tax exemptions. Even with property tax rates that are higher, you can still come out paying less in a mortgage. Look at this source, which will illustrate that places even with higher property tax rates can still come out to paying less or being able to buy a home: https://www.nahb.org/news-and-econom...ortunity-index (complete listing by affordability rank, an area like Syracuse should be higher on the list given their criteria)
We also have to look into the fact of being able to afford a home, which is likely lower in a place like Middletown(or Brockton), compared to the Bos-Wash corridor major cities. In fact, I believe the growth of the black middle class in Middletown is due to its overall cost of living in relation to NYC pay, which many black families brought with them. It has Metro-North access to NYC. So, many likely take that to there places of employment.
Do you have the raw numbers? We can't use percentage when talking about gains. I'm sure there are cities with 300%-1,000% gains in Black middle-class households making over $75K. It's easy to have that type of percentage growth when you are starting with barely any households.
How many Black middle-class households did Jacksonville and Phoenix gain in raw numbers?
I looked into the property taxes for Columbus, Ohio. They are really high at 1.9%. A house that is $250,000 will have a $4,750 annual property tax bill. I really wish our people (Black people) had more education on property taxes. I can't tell you how many people I have talked to around the country that had no idea how property taxes impact their mortgage before buying.
You will never get that money back. It is not adding to your net worth. If two people are paying $1,800 for their mortgage and their interest rate is the same along with other bill, however, one person is paying $400 per month in property taxes while the other person is only paying less than $100, the person paying the $400 for taxes has a house worth probably $100,000 less than the other person. If they both sell their houses, the person with the lower tax bill is going to get way more profit than the person with that high tax bill even though they have the same mortgage.
This does not take into account inflation, only raw numbers and raw income.
Also, property tax rates vary, sometimes greatly, by municipality, and often do not take into account reductions such as homestead exemptions, veteran exemptions, or senior exemptions. Buying a more expensive home in a less taxed city doesn't "save" you anything until the time of home sale, which also varies by city. Many homeowners ended up under water in places like Florida and Las Vegas after 2008. People need to be able to afford to live in their homes, and not just be house rich and cash poor for the duration of their residency.
Also, higher tax payments generally mean higher level of services that would otherwise have to be covered in other ways, either through fees, private services, HOAs, etc.
Last edited by RocketSci; 07-21-2022 at 01:16 PM..
This does not take into account inflation, only raw numbers and raw income.
Also, property tax rates vary, sometimes greatly, by municipality, and often do not take into account reductions such as homestead exemptions, veteran exemptions, or senior exemptions. Buying a more expensive home in a less taxed city doesn't "save" you anything until the time of home sale, which also varies by city. Many homeowners ended up under water in places like Florida and Las Vegas after 2008. People need to be able to afford to live in their homes, and not just be house rich and cash poor for the duration of their residency.
Also, higher tax payments generally mean higher level of services that would otherwise have to be covered in other ways, either through fees, private services, HOAs, etc.
Put into the correct context:
Columbus +12,761 (+194%) = In 220 square miles
Jacksonville +15,391 (+206%) = In 747.3 square miles
Phoenix +6,944 (+237%) = In 518 square miles
for comparison:
Boston +12,396 (+172%) = In 48.3 square miles
So who actually gained more? For example, how many Black middle-class households did Columbus, Jacksonville, or Phoenix gain in any 48 sq. mile area? Or, how many Black middle-class households did Boston gain in any 220-740 sq. mile land area?
As for homestead deductions, many cities have them. If two cities offer a homestead deduction, but one has substantially higher property taxes, the high property tax resident is still losing money. Many big cities get their taxes from tourism taxes, alcohol tax, and commercial taxes. Less popular cities don't have that option, so they get their taxes from the residents. It's why suburbs typically have high property taxes too.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 07-21-2022 at 01:50 PM..
Wow...We are really moving the goalposts, for real. There are multiple ways to accumulate wealth and in NY State, the property tax rate will depend on the homeowner due to property tax exemptions. Even with property tax rates that are higher, you can still come out paying less in a mortgage. Look at this source, which will illustrate that places even with higher property tax rates can still come out to paying less or being able to buy a home: https://www.nahb.org/news-and-econom...ortunity-index (complete listing by affordability rank, an area like Syracuse should be higher on the list given their criteria)
We also have to look into the fact of being able to afford a home, which is likely lower in a place like Middletown(or Brockton), compared to the Bos-Wash corridor major cities. In fact, I believe the growth of the black middle class in Middletown is due to its overall cost of living in relation to NYC pay, which many black families brought with them. It has Metro-North access to NYC. So, many likely take that to there places of employment.
What is up with this "moving the goalpost" like these are all different issues and topics unrelated to each other? Property taxes are a real thing for homeowners, and you can afford a more expensive house when property taxes are lower with the same mortgage. That is what banks aren't telling you.
You go to a bank and get pre-approved for an amount only for a certain jurisdiction. Your mortgage will be substantially different depending on where you live, not based on the "cost" of the house. The cost of the house is the same regardless of where it is located. What changes your mortgage is interest rate, down payment, and the big one...PropertyTaxes. Of those three things, you have control over interest rate (your credit) and down payment (your savings). You have no control over property taxes!
If your mortgage is low with high property taxes, that means your house isn't worth much which translates to low personal net worth. That is the whole point.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 07-21-2022 at 01:48 PM..
What is up with this "moving the goalpost" like these are all different issues and topics unrelated to each other? Property taxes are a real thing for homeowners, and you can afford a more expensive house when property taxes are lower with the same mortgage. That is what banks aren't telling you.
You go to a bank and get pre-approved for an amount only for a certain jurisdiction. Your mortgage will be substantially different depending on where you live, not based on the "cost" of the house. The cost of the house is the same regardless of where it is located. What changes your mortgage is interest rate, down payment, and the big one...PropertyTaxes. Of those three things, you have control over interest rate (your credit) and down payment (your savings). You have no control over property taxes!
If your mortgage is low with high property taxes, that means your house isn't worth much which translates to low personal net worth. That is the whole point.
We went from black middle class growth in city propers to property taxes as soon as a city showed black middle class growth that almost quadrupled in 20 years. So, is the topic about black middle class growth in city propers or property taxes?
Even with the property tax rate(key word) being higher, that doesn't mean that you can't afford a home and the other way to view this given the amount of wealth that black people lost during the recession in 2008 or so, it looks like even areas with higher property taxes offer a better likelihood of staying in your home than many areas with lower property tax rates due to lower home prices/mortgage payments. So, we also have to consider that a home is for a place to live and to be able to stay in as well.
We went from black middle class growth in city propers to property taxes as soon as a city showed black middle class growth that almost quadrupled in 20 years. So, is the topic about black middle class growth in city propers or property taxes?
Even with the property tax rate(key word) is higher, that doesn't mean that you can't afford a home and the other way to view this given the amount of wealth that black people lost during the recession in 2008 or so, it looks like even areas with higher property taxes offer a better likelihood of staying in your home than many areas with lower property tax rates. So, we also have to consider that a home is for a place to live and to be able to stay in as well.
Well for starters, this has always been about raw Black middle-class growth. It is not about percentages. My post asked what the raw numbers were for Columbus, Jacksonville, and Phoenix. I brought up property taxes as a completely different subject related to the cost of housing. It had nothing to do with how much growth those places had. Someone brought up cost of living weeks ago and this thread has revolved around both topics for weeks.
I already showed you the point I was making about property taxes. They reduce your net worth. The higher the property taxes, the less you can afford. Aren’t we promoting wealth? Homeownership is the main driver of Black wealth.
Do you know of a city that didn’t lose value during the great recession in 2008 and has low property taxes too?
Last edited by MDAllstar; 07-21-2022 at 02:23 PM..
Well for starters, this has always been about raw Black middle-class growth. It is not about percentages. My post asked what the raw numbers were for Columbus, Jacksonville, and Phoenix. I brought up property taxes as a completely different subject related to the cost of housing. It had nothing to do with how much growth those places had. Someone brought up cost of living weeks ago and this thread has revolved around both topics for weeks.
I already showed you the point I was making about property taxes. They reduce your net worth. The higher the property taxes, the less you can afford. Aren’t we promoting wealth? Homeownership is the main driver of Black wealth.
Do you know of a city that didn’t lose value during the great recession in 2008 and has low property taxes too?
This is why I asked about population size earlier. Of course a smaller city isn’t going to have as much raw number growth, but we can’t discount percentages either.
Also, we have to be able to hold on to the house in order to obtain wealth through home ownership. So, being able to even buy a home and stay in it is just as important.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-21-2022 at 04:02 PM..
This is why I asked about population size earlier. Of course a smaller city isn’t going to have as much raw number growth, but we can’t discount percentages either.
Also, we have to be able to hold on to the house in order to obtain wealth through home ownership. So, being able to even buy a home and stay in it is just as important.
I said population size doesn’t matter. If a smaller city is gaining more people, they would make the top 10. Also, raw growth has nothing to do with population of the current city. There are major cities not growing at all. Honestly, it’s already not apples to apples because we aren’t taking into account land mass. Some of these cities are the size of entire counties in land mass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
No population limit. It is really supposed to be the cities gaining the most. If a smaller city is gaining more than larger cities, then they would make the top 10.
I agree that we need to be able to afford houses. I have already put on a clinic earlier in this thread showing the difference property taxes make in your mortgage. Do you know how many Black families buy cheap homes in high property tax cities paying the same mortgage as people that own homes in low property tax cities with expensive homes. Most cities have home stead deductions so that doesn’t change anything.
We should be educating people about that. Think how many people would make a different choice. Here is the example I gave earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Let's take Third Ward in Houston versus Ward 7 in DC:
Even if the house in the DC example cost $505,000, the mortgage would only be $2,476.85 which is still less than the Houston example. I’m sure Houston has a homestead deduction and I know DC has it so that saving is a wash. The difference in this example is, the DC homeowner will have a net worth of $100,000 more than the Houston homeowner in the example paying the same amount for their mortgage. Property taxes matter a lot.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 07-21-2022 at 04:34 PM..
Of the 50 largest metros, here are the top 10 central cities that had the largest increase in Black population between 2010 and 2020 (in order, by number of people, not percentage):
Columbus
Jacksonville
Phoenix
Charlotte
Indianapolis
Houston
Las Vegas
San Antonio
Minneapolis
Oklahoma City
Of the 50 largest metros, counting only cities that showed an increase in Black population, here are the 10 central cities with the largest Black population in 2020 (in order):
Houston
Dallas
Jacksonville
Charlotte
Columbus
Indianapolis
Atlanta
New Orleans
Phoenix
Raleigh
Note that many places with a large Black population (like NYC, LA, DC, Boston, etc) showed a decrease in Black population between 2010 and 2020, so are not included on this list.
For the sake of the thread, we'll look at Minneapolis. This is will be by percentage, as the city went from 9% in 2000(2070 out of 23046) to 16.6% in 2020(4555 out of 27496).
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