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Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,192 posts, read 7,647,547 times
Reputation: 5820
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65km/37 mi from "downtown"/central point:
6.25 million threshold.
New York, NY (Manhattan) Union Square 14th st- 17,851,487
Los Angeles (Union Station)- 13,664,163
Chicago (Brookfield)- 9,057,135
Washington, DC (WH/Presidents Park/17th St NW)- 7,871,047
Houston, TX (Central Station Main/Rusk Street)- 7,605,382
Dallas, TX (Union Station)- 7,560,971
Philadelphia, Pa City Hall- 6,740,513
*SF is below threshold in the city itself, Downtown Oakland reaches 6,268,112.
*Atlanta, GA- 6,244,541 (this is moving the radius to Piedmont Park)
*Boston now from West Roxbury reaches 6,248,126, but still not at the threshold from the inner city core.
*Baltimore is less than 100k away from threshold now- 6,156,998
The threshold is being held at 6.25 now and will stay there.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,192 posts, read 7,647,547 times
Reputation: 5820
Quote:
Originally Posted by atadytic19
Would have thought Dallas would have passed Houston after 35 miles seeing how at that point Dallas is picking up pretty much all of Fort Worth.
It's amazing that it goes toe to toe with those 2 cities combined when at that radius it takes in all of Galveston Bay and all the wetlands around it.
Likewise I though so too, since at that radius Dallas starts picking up most of FW, and DC starts picking up a lot of Baltimore. The Baltimore area is more populous than FW, and it's at that point where DC's radius jumps back up above DFW and Houston. We're by now well beyond just single city population tho. Houston has probably the most even or balanced suburban population distribution from a single metro core that I've seen in the nation, and performs very well up through 7M.
You can also tap the radius around Dallas or DC proper without leaving the city lines and the number jump significantly for both. So there are points even just barely to the West of Union Station that Dallas is ahead of Houston at this radius. This is just from the downtown point, again going back to how remarkably even Houston's metro population spreads evenly. At this point, most of these places have the population to make threshold it's just that we're working around shapes, and flows of the direction of population patterns.
Last edited by the resident09; 08-24-2023 at 07:46 PM..
Likewise I though so too, since at that radius Dallas starts picking up most of FW, and DC starts picking up a lot of Baltimore. The Baltimore area is more populous than FW, and it's at that point where DC's radius jumps back up above DFW and Houston. We're by now well beyond just single city population tho. Houston has probably the most even or balanced suburban population distribution from a single metro core that I've seen in the nation, and performs very well up through 7M.
I think it's because both DC and Baltimore have their own burbs, but FW's burbs are mainly Dallas burbs.
Dallas and FW grew into each other, while DC and Baltimore are their own things with their own suburbs.
Most of the bang in DFW is either to the north of Dallas or in-between Dallas and FW. You run out of bang pretty quick once you pass FW. The metro is clearly centered around Dallas.
But yeah, Houston is pretty even in build.
It has a lot of potential if it can get a handle on flooding. I posted comparisons in the Texas forum. The smallest the tool can be set to its 3km and Dallas only has one 3km radius with 100k people or more (the area around is Uptown)
Houston has 3km radiuses of 100k or more going from the core out to about its 3rd loop. That's a good 25 miles. I think because the density is so even, it can handle spikes in population without the spikes in COL. It doesn't need any more land. It just needs to focus on its even growth and it can become a megacity without expanding outward and without becoming expensive. Dallas CSA is busting at the seams. I think it will accomplish megacity status by continuing to expand.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,192 posts, read 7,647,547 times
Reputation: 5820
I'll probably let this be the last measurements I pull, and allow others to play with the tool as they see fit to find numbers for whatever city chosen.
A lot adjustments have been made, and positive ones IMO. As we reach a radius this wide it's actually advantageous to most cities to pull the center point in much closer to the cores and allow the population on whatever sides to just hit inside the circumference.
70km/43 mi from "downtown"/central point:
6.25 million threshold.
New York, NY (Manhattan) Union Square 14th st- 18,372,574
Los Angeles (Union Station)- 14,179,921
Chicago-Maywood (South 1st ave/Eisenhower Exp/)- 9,301,044
Washington, DC (WH/Presidents Park/17th St NW)- 8,303,729
Houston, TX (Central Station Main/Rusk Street)- 7,676,655
Dallas, TX (Union Station)- 7,665,137
Philadelphia, Pa City Hall- 7,004,717
Baltimore, MD (Camden Station-Ballpark)- 6,771,426
Atlanta, GA (Piedmont Park, NE corner)- 6,425,339
San Francisco (Bay Bridge/Embarcadero/Pier 28)6,395,827
Boston (Fenway)- 6,381,422
Chicago's radius moved further inward again and further North to Maywood.
Baltimore's presences appears now pulling in population all the way down to DC's southern Beltway.
Houston still leads Dallas by about 11k even this wide out, from the center of each city.
SF proper finally makes it and pulls in almost 6.4 million from the Eastern waterfront of Downtown.
Boston proper now can pull enough at this radius to make threshold again.
Miami does not achieve a 6 million population in a circle, you just can't make one. If this thread were about population in a straight line, it might make close to 7 million.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,192 posts, read 7,647,547 times
Reputation: 5820
Quote:
Originally Posted by atadytic19
I think it's because both DC and Baltimore have their own burbs, but FW's burbs are mainly Dallas burbs.
Dallas and FW grew into each other, while DC and Baltimore are their own things with their own suburbs.
Most of the bang in DFW is either to the north of Dallas or in-between Dallas and FW. You run out of bang pretty quick once you pass FW. The metro is clearly centered around Dallas.
But yeah, Houston is pretty even in build.
It has a lot of potential if it can get a handle on flooding. I posted comparisons in the Texas forum. The smallest the tool can be set to its 3km and Dallas only has one 3km radius with 100k people or more (the area around is Uptown)
Houston has 3km radiuses of 100k or more going from the core out to about its 3rd loop. That's a good 25 miles. I think because the density is so even, it can handle spikes in population without the spikes in COL. It doesn't need any more land. It just needs to focus on its even growth and it can become a megacity without expanding outward and without becoming expensive. Dallas CSA is busting at the seams. I think it will accomplish megacity status by continuing to expand.
Correct Baltimore's essentially a top 20 metro alone, also with DFW being on essentially a suburban grid, it's less telling when you're in a suburb of FW or DAL.
Houston while very sprawling, does have a bit of LA to it in that it can extend pretty far out, and essentially as a single node metro without bumping into the population of other cities or a secondary one like FW. Like you said if it can just focus on the urban infill from the outside down inward that would be immense, but that zoning down there is atrocious.
Throw in Miami and Seattle and that list is pretty much what I would consider our major cities.
The order is pretty much perfect for the 1st 7.
Philadelphia comfortably fits in that tier with Houston and Dallas despite what MSA stats show.
The Texas cities year by year keep pulling more and more away from their southern peers. Houston especially is 20 percent or greater than Atlanta throughout all the different radius. That is a significant difference. Miami at least has constraints and is uniformly built too, just in a linear fashion due to constraints.
Lol, Houston’s zoning is improving. About 25 years ago they abandoned some zoning restrictions that has allowed it to outpace Dallas in densification. They got rid of zoning restrictions on multifamily and reduced minimum lot size. So lots that once held a sfh surrounded by large yards are being upgraded to multiple homes with no yard in-between or to apartment buildings or condos.
Dallas so has zoning restrictions limiting one house per lot and the minimum lot size is still girthy.
Houston is also getting rid of parking minimums, so you are seeing less developments without the far setback that previously accommodated the surface parking. It's going to take decades to correct the decades of harmful laws, but it's moving in the right direction. Check back with it when you are about 97. It should have matured nicely by then
New York, NY (Manhattan) Union Square 14th st- 17,851,487
Los Angeles (Union Station)- 13,664,163
Chicago (Brookfield)- 9,057,135
Washington, DC (WH/Presidents Park/17th St NW)- 7,871,047
Houston, TX (Central Station Main/Rusk Street)- 7,605,382
Dallas, TX (Union Station)- 7,560,971
Philadelphia, Pa City Hall- 6,740,513
*SF is below threshold in the city itself, Downtown Oakland reaches 6,268,112.
*Atlanta, GA- 6,244,541 (this is moving the radius to Piedmont Park)
*Boston now from West Roxbury reaches 6,248,126, but still not at the threshold from the inner city core.
*Baltimore is less than 100k away from threshold now- 6,156,998
The threshold is being held at 6.25 now and will stay there.
Appreciate the work you’ve done on this!
Question on your process. At these larger circles Boston becomes basically 40% water.
Boston is 6.36 million from just outside the city in Dedham.
Seems consistent given you are in Brookfield for chicago.
I'll probably let this be the last measurements I pull, and allow others to play with the tool as they see fit to find numbers for whatever city chosen.
A lot adjustments have been made, and positive ones IMO. As we reach a radius this wide it's actually advantageous to most cities to pull the center point in much closer to the cores and allow the population on whatever sides to just hit inside the circumference.
70km/43 mi from "downtown"/central point:
6.25 million threshold.
New York, NY (Manhattan) Union Square 14th st- 18,372,574
Los Angeles (Union Station)- 14,179,921
Chicago-Maywood (South 1st ave/Eisenhower Exp/)- 9,301,044
Washington, DC (WH/Presidents Park/17th St NW)- 8,303,729
Houston, TX (Central Station Main/Rusk Street)- 7,676,655
Dallas, TX (Union Station)- 7,665,137
Philadelphia, Pa City Hall- 7,004,717
Baltimore, MD (Camden Station-Ballpark)- 6,771,426
Atlanta, GA (Piedmont Park, NE corner)- 6,425,339
San Francisco (Bay Bridge/Embarcadero/Pier 28)6,395,827
Boston (Fenway)- 6,381,422
Chicago's radius moved further inward again and further North to Maywood.
Baltimore's presences appears now pulling in population all the way down to DC's southern Beltway.
Houston still leads Dallas by about 11k even this wide out, from the center of each city.
SF proper finally makes it and pulls in almost 6.4 million from the Eastern waterfront of Downtown.
Boston proper now can pull enough at this radius to make threshold again.
Miami does not achieve a 6 million population in a circle, you just can't make one. If this thread were about population in a straight line, it might make close to 7 million.
Appreciate the work you’ve done on this!
Question on your process. At these larger circles Boston becomes basically 40% water.
Boston is 6.78 million from just outside the city in Dedham.
Seems consistent given you are in Maywood for chicago.
Does anyone have the numbers for Trenton NJ? It could possibly one of the largest population numbers starting around 30-40 miles.
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