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Old 02-13-2023, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,404 posts, read 46,555,846 times
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It's highly likely that most of Kansas will become drier and warmer over time, and there will also be a quick collapse of the Ogallala Aquifer in the very near future that has been overdrawn for over 70 years. Lots of information to be found on that.
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Old 02-13-2023, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Taos NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFX View Post
We are going so far off topic, it's not fair to anyone showing up for a discussion of the topic title. I should start a climate topic. But anyone familiar with this here forum knows that will just get locked.

The warming hole is a made up term for something that does not exist. In fact by definition it is something that is not there. But yet does exist. Like a donut hole.

So there is this "hole" where there has been no long term warming. (which actually means long term cooling). It stands out in stark contract to the entire rest of the planet. Just one place where there is no long term warming, or rather, where there is long term cooling. And by some coincidence it is right where the best long term measurements on the planet exist.

So the question is, does Lawrence Kansas show long term cooling? Is it one of the places where the long term quality data shows it is actually cooler now than in the past?
Evapotranspiration. As water evaporates, it cools down the air. That's why the SE US has been slightly cooling as well - more trees and less fields than in the past and they transpirate a lot more than a field. There's a lot of irrigated farming in the Midwest, that cools down the air and increases rainfall, hence why pretty much the whole mississippi valley gets significantly more precipitation than it used to. That evaporating ogallala water falls as rain somewhere miles to the east.

We can't say that any of this area will get drier, there's no conclusive evidence for that. Canada is a giant humidifier waiting to get turned on as it warms, and the gulf will produce more water vapor as well. Where that water falls they don't know, but it could roll on through the empty belt and make it wetter.
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Old 02-13-2023, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,404 posts, read 46,555,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Evapotranspiration. As water evaporates, it cools down the air. That's why the SE US has been slightly cooling as well - more trees and less fields than in the past and they transpirate a lot more than a field. There's a lot of irrigated farming in the Midwest, that cools down the air and increases rainfall, hence why pretty much the whole mississippi valley gets significantly more precipitation than it used to. That evaporating ogallala water falls as rain somewhere miles to the east.

We can't say that any of this area will get drier, there's no conclusive evidence for that. Canada is a giant humidifier waiting to get turned on as it warms, and the gulf will produce more water vapor as well. Where that water falls they don't know, but it could roll on through the empty belt and make it wetter.
No, there is concrete evidence that irrigated agriculture will be going quickly away in large areas of the Great Plains due to the fact that there is no more groundwater via profligate water mining, therefore the cost to drill a new well 100 ft. down is at least $100,000. Large areas of the High Plains, especially the SW Triangle of Kansas that include Garden City, Dodge City, and Liberal will revert back to dryland agriculture. There will be no more cheap corn to feed cattle at feed yards.
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Old 02-13-2023, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Toney, Alabama
537 posts, read 443,957 times
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As far as I'm concerned, that map ought to be double or triple the size.

There are relatively few people living there because it's just so doggone boring. And the societies that are there are not really old--like along the East Coast.

It doesn't help that manufacturing is not located there because of the distance to the big markets for products on the east coast and west coast. It's expensive to transport goods long distances.
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Old 02-14-2023, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Taos NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
No, there is concrete evidence that irrigated agriculture will be going quickly away in large areas of the Great Plains due to the fact that there is no more groundwater via profligate water mining, therefore the cost to drill a new well 100 ft. down is at least $100,000. Large areas of the High Plains, especially the SW Triangle of Kansas that include Garden City, Dodge City, and Liberal will revert back to dryland agriculture. There will be no more cheap corn to feed cattle at feed yards.
Saying that parts of the Ogallala are drying up is one thing, yes there's evidence for that. Saying that precipitation will fall across the area is another - there's no evidence for that.
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Old 02-15-2023, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Saying that parts of the Ogallala are drying up is one thing, yes there's evidence for that. Saying that precipitation will fall across the area is another - there's no evidence for that.
Even in years with average precipitation, (15-20'' isn't much), the area will continue to get drier due to warmer overall temperatures yielding increases in evaporation of soil moisture. Greedy farmers using irrigation will have to revert back to dryland agriculture dependent on erratic precipitation at best.
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Old 02-17-2023, 06:49 AM
 
Location: PHX -> ATL
6,311 posts, read 6,808,542 times
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West Texas (minus El Paso) and the Texas Panhandle is the fugliest place I have ever seen. Amarillo was downright depressing, flat plain brown grass even in dead of summer with the most interesting to look at being a wind turbine. And wind turbines are designed to be featureless so as to not interfere with aerodynamics, so that really says something. Also people tried to rob me twice when I stopped in Amarillo and I was only there overnight. Not even Bezos money can get me to live there.

What’s really interesting though is that by the time you get to the TX/OK border along the I-40 is that Oklahoma does not look like that. It’s green and has some small but slight rolling hills and maybe a tree or two. I feel like I owe Oklahoma an apology since I thought it’d be like Amarillo all this time. Oklahoma was surprisingly cute in that way, a true countryside Americana if I imagined the stereotype. And eastern Oklahoma was actually kind of nice.
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Old 02-17-2023, 11:36 AM
SFX
 
Location: Tennessee
1,636 posts, read 890,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NearFantastica View Post
Fantastic video. It's crazy just how unpopulated the western half of the country is, even crazier that the majority of the population out west lives in California alone
Like he says in the video, the weather is a huge factor for anyone moving to an area. Unless the economic benefits are huge, nobody wants to move somewhere that has terrible weather. All the time.

Even when the economic benefits are huge, almost nobody wants to live where the weather sucks.
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Old 02-17-2023, 11:39 AM
SFX
 
Location: Tennessee
1,636 posts, read 890,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Even in years with average precipitation, (15-20'' isn't much), the area will continue to get drier due to warmer overall temperatures yielding increases in evaporation of soil moisture.
What area are you talking about? It's certainly not Kansas.
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Old 02-17-2023, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,404 posts, read 46,555,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFX View Post
What area are you talking about? It's certainly not Kansas.
It certainly is, all areas of the High Plains that have a semi-arid climate have been seeing more frequent and longer lasting extreme and exceptional droughts. Ogallala Aquifer is collapsing rapidly, and any agriculture in the coming decades will be dryland only.
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