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The problem is that the average person doesn’t listen to Boosie or Houdini. You can dislike Drake all you want, that doesn’t affect his popularity or the impact he has. People know he’s from Toronto and he’s one of the most well known musicians (let alone rappers) worldwide. Drake absolutely gave the world a perspective of blacks in Canada much more than Houdini did.
Lil Wayne doesn’t have the same status as Boosie; but Wayne’s audience goes way beyond that Boosie did. Same as Bun B vs Travis Scott. Bun B’s music is more representative of traditional Houston music but Travis (and also Drake) had a wider audience that showcased HOU. Same as Twista vs Kanye West for Chicago.
And in Drake’s particular case, as BBMM mentioned, Drake was the center of a movement that he helped elevate. Which included Weeknd, T Lanes etc
And the average person generally doesn't care or think in terms of "wow Toronto is on the hip-hop map now!" when they hear a Drake song on the radio. Yeah, Wayne is mainstream and doesn't have the same reputation in Louisiana.
Same goes for the rest of these cats. DJ Screw has a whole day in Houston dedicated to him, Travis Scott let a riot go on at his show. They aren't the same.
I don’t really think any WASPS are fun though- that’s not their perception not what they are known for. But when people think Toronto they think immigrants and people form all over the world/cosmopolitan they don’t think wasps. It’s definitely not infamously boring or bad.
The biggest culture export I know out of Toronto specifically- is Caribana. Virtually anyone I know who’s been there says it’s a ton of fun and encourages me (far from a WASP) to go
How can you really quantify if it lags Its American peers of which there 2 maybe 3 ??
You can think WASps are boring but they’re the single largest group in Toronto. ~35% of the city. Much more than “Puritan Boston”. There are like 5 WASPS for every Islander. You can’t just ignore them.
If you look at metros between 6-10 million which is Toronto’s weight class. That’s DC, Chicago, Philly, Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, Houston. I know nothing about Texas so 5 American cities, Toronto is 5th or 6th.
But regardless I think it’s pretty much impossible to argue Canadian cities are better than American cities despite being better on the two main arguments made Walkability/Transit and safety. But does share a general culture that America has.
I also think pointing to the fact 1st/2 generation immigrants do have a vibrant night culture points to it being cultural (the whole early to bed early to rise mantra) because they live in the same physical city as everyone else and it doesn’t stop them.
I see these as the primary causes, most of which pre-date the pandemic.
1. High real estate cost annihilating club/entertainment districts in central cities. Popular nightclubs in most cities have been replaced by condos and commercial buildings. There are fewer places today that can hold 500-1,000 revelers compared to the late 90s/early 00s.
2. Social media causing everyone to stare at screens all night.
3. Today's music is not really made for dancing. The early to mid 00s was probably the golden era of the club banger.
What about EDM? That is good for dancing and seems more popular than ever. I feel like that was very niche until 2010 or so.
I think there is definite truth to #1 for specific nightlife districts but I don't know if it generalizes across entire cities, much less the entire country.
With #2 I agree, but I wonder if even bigger than social media is dating apps. When I was younger I went to bars and clubs to meet girls. That seems to be not be as much of thing today. If you are only interacting with people you already know it's easy to say "wait a minute, why are we here paying $10 for drinks? Let's just hang out at home."
I don't really agree with posters on here about transit being particularly important... My experience is that even in NYC and London and the like transit is not super convenient in the middle of the night as train frequencies go way down. I think more important is having concentrated nightlife districts. Maybe you have to take an uber to get there, but once you make it you can bounce from place to place on foot. That makes the expense of the ride a lot easier to justify. That's the secret sauce of most of the cities that still have good nightlife.
Another thing I've noticed is that compared to Millennials Gen Z just doesn't drink alcohol as much. And while I realize that some people don't drink and still have fun at night, I don't think that is common. For most nightlife is heavily tied with alcohol.
Finally, I'm curious to see what the cultural artifacts of the current economic turbulence will be. I feel like the most interesting cultural periods are frequently when the economy is struggling a bit. It seemed to me that nightlife was more interesting in like 2009-2012 when everyone was underemployed after the great recession. That could just be an artifact of my age though.
Everything about nightlife is unhealthy in multiple ways... why would you be surprised that people are ditching the concept?? What's the heck is wrong with Europeans for still engaging is this weirdness?
One night of staying up past 2am takes DAYS to recover, especially if you're wasted which essentially means you didn't get any quality sleep. You're body will adjust to a rhythm and if this is the pattern, then you end up waking up late / napping in the afternoon (which is never as good as real sleep).
Bars are full of people that live at them, and the people you meet there just do that for fun. Clubs are pretty much hated by everyone, hence why they don't really exist. They have a very negative stigma. Deranged or thirsty / creepy guys + women who are red wine drunk with their friends actively clustered in the corner not interacting. 0 relationships have been formed at nightclubs in the last 13 years. People do get shot at them quite often though. Occasionally there's some fun old people that just wanna dance. Most drunk people are annoying to talk to and just ramble. The whole scene is just eerie.
There's plenty of great music all across the US, every spot I've lived in has fantastic music - there's no need for that to go on past 11pm.
Millenials / Gen Z are much more likely to get high around the campfire and go moonlight paddle boarding rather than get inebriated at some crusty hole in the wall.
Sorry, but most of your viewpoints I find kill joy and utterly absurd. One thing for sure the atmosphere in night clubs is now a lot healthier than decades ago when thick, thick clouds of cigarette smoke were the norm. The bartenders and other workers had it most rough back then from all the constant second hand smoke. These days even where smoking isn't prohibited, few people choose to smoke.
Fewer people than before are coming into their 20s these days, so that could explain why bars are less busy if they really are.
A night of staying up past 2am never took me days to recover, and I learned early from the hangovers not to be dumb enough to get wasted. Drinking until you're seeing in doubles became a definite no-no. No afternoon nap needed after sleeping until as late as noon.
Sports bars are cool to go to for their huge flat screens, while sharing with everyone else to root for the local team to win.
The only people I know of who live at bars are old retired people who largely keep them open for the afternoons. If they want to live out retirement that way, then that is their right. Violence in bars can largely be avoided by still not being there at closing time. Too much alcohol by then makes some people get easily irate.
Before Drake I only heard of Toronto in a 2005 Ludacris song where he mentioned Caribana.
Drake put Toronto on the hip hop map. That's how millions of young Americans relate to Toronto... through people like Party Next Door, Weekend, Kardinal Offishal, Tory Lanez, Roy Woods, Honey Cocaine, Majid Jordan, Jazz Cartier, NAV, even Melyssa Ford and Deborah Cox. All hip-hop people/stars.
Houdini is from Canada?
Can’t forget Choclair, Point Blank, Maestro Fresh Wes, Saukrates, Snow, K-os and a few others that got some love in the past on this side of the border.
Even NYC is booty now for partying. Everything changed after COVID
But one thing I noticed is Spaniards start their day much later than Americans. Everyone in the states is up at 7am. My Spanish/Portuguese family sleeps till 9. What is 12am here is like 3am there.
Aren't many businesses closed for a couple-few hours during the early afternoon then reopen in many nations of Europe? I think Italy does this. Isn't dinner time much later in many Euro nations like 9pm?
Can’t forget Choclair, Point Blank, Maestro Fresh Wes, Saukrates, Snow, K-os and a few others that got some love in the past on this side of the border.
The issue is the music scene doesn’t really work like it used to where you had to pay your dues at local dives until word spread and you got discovered.
They just send a Demo tape to LA/Atlanta and Pray.
The two post popular artists from Toronto, Drake and Justin Bieber were never involved in the Local music scene. Drake was a Miley Cyrus kind of child star turned musician. And Bieber was whisked away at 14 when Talent scouts saw a YouTube video.
They were not done local sensation that broke out. You don’t get big in Seattle or Chicago or St Louis anymore you get big on Spotify. Which means where artists are from doesn’t really matter. You don’t have Motown anymore.
A lot of the nightlife in foreign cities involve standing around and conversating outside of establishments. This is considered loitering in this country.
And the average person generally doesn't care or think in terms of "wow Toronto is on the hip-hop map now!" when they hear a Drake song on the radio. Yeah, Wayne is mainstream and doesn't have the same reputation in Louisiana.
Same goes for the rest of these cats. DJ Screw has a whole day in Houston dedicated to him, Travis Scott let a riot go on at his show. They aren't the same.
So basically “new rap sucks. Back in my day it was better” lmao
You'd think San Francisco would have a good nightlife, but residents and former residents report, that there, too, most entertainment venues close at 10:00 or midnight. Maybe Los Angeles is more active at night.
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