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The trouble with this reasoning is that rail doesn't go everywhere you want to go, when you want to go. When you get to the station or terminal, what then?
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Originally Posted by grega94
You need good public transit in the cities coupled with a regional/nation rail system for it to really work well. Also bikes do a pretty good job of solving the last mile problem.
Furthermore nobody seems to ask “you get to the airport and then what then”? It’s pretty much the same situation, except in this case the rail station is already in the center of the city.
Yeah, it’s not like airplanes plop you in the exact spot you need to be, you still have to find ways to get around.
Airports are often in the boonies and nowhere near anything interesting.
Not sure why rail gets so much flack.
Some people end up driving because they prefer to and don’t want to deal with whatever transit when they get there.
Others drive because they don’t want to be flung 35k feet into the air with a tube full of crazies, but trains don’t service the areas they might be traveling in.
Good rail might get a lot of cars off the road with drivers who’d rather be traveling by other means.
Flying can also be very expensive comparatively speaking.
Yeah, it’s not like airplanes plop you in the exact spot you need to be, you still have to find ways to get around.
Airports are often in the boonies and nowhere near anything interesting.
Not sure why rail gets so much flack.
Some people end up driving because they prefer to and don’t want to deal with whatever transit when they get there.
Others drive because they don’t want to be flung 35k feet into the air with a tube full of crazies, but trains don’t service the areas they might be traveling in.
Good rail might get a lot of cars off the road with drivers who’d rather be traveling by other means.
Flying can also be very expensive comparatively speaking.
A difference is that people who travel by air have budgeted for intra-city transit once they get to the destination. Most current automobile users do not have that option. When I traveled to Dallas, San Antonio and Houston, in March 1982 to look for a post-law school job, that’s exactly what I did. Same story with my honeymoon and all of my vacations with my wife over the years, other than once we drove to.
Why are people jumping up and down like chimps to find ways to inconvenience the masses? Are we sure that if we pull the plug on private automobiles we will no longer have disastrous hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, and floods?
But let's sy you are going to visit someone at their house. Can you keep the bicycle for three hours?
Sure you can. What happens depends on the service. The default is to just charge you more money if you check it out for longer though perhaps some have some kind of cap or daily limit.
Usually with bikeshare or scooter share though, what you do is you "return" the bike into a dock or just park it somewhere near your friend's house since these are usually distributed throughout the city so you are no longer charged for it.
These services are pretty common. If that doesn't work for whatever reason then your alternatives are walking, ridershare / taxi, carshare / rental, mass transit or some combination of these. It's nice to have a lot of options.
A difference is that people who travel by air have budgeted for intra-city transit once they get to the destination. Most current automobile users do not have that option. When I traveled to Dallas, San Antonio and Houston, in March 1982 to look for a post-law school job, that’s exactly what I did. Same story with my honeymoon and all of my vacations with my wife over the years, other than once we drove to.
Why are people jumping up and down like chimps to find ways to inconvenience the masses? Are we sure that if we pull the plug on private automobiles we will no longer have disastrous hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, and floods?
You understand that was forty years ago and times have changed right? You didn't even know how a bikeshare service works. It's kind of amazing how much you have to say on the topic when you clearly have no experience or knowledge of the matter.
A difference is that people who travel by air have budgeted for intra-city transit once they get to the destination. Most current automobile users do not have that option. When I traveled to Dallas, San Antonio and Houston, in March 1982 to look for a post-law school job, that’s exactly what I did. Same story with my honeymoon and all of my vacations with my wife over the years, other than once we drove to.
Why are people jumping up and down like chimps to find ways to inconvenience the masses? Are we sure that if we pull the plug on private automobiles we will no longer have disastrous hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, and floods?
I’m not one to argue with you about the environmental stuff.
There isn’t much about the modern world that is going to “save the planet” if indeed the planet needs saving.
I’m all for cleaner air and more common sense means of energy, but we’ve yet to discover a perfect solution.
I do, however, tend to think in practical, efficient ways. For that, rail is one of the best options as long as we expect to travel to places faster than our own two feet can take us.
Not sure what could be so inconvenient about good, high speed rail. I mean, yeah, Amtrak is not likely to ever fully be that.
For the average person who makes average wages and likes to go places a little more often, air is expensive and there’s little left in the budget to budget for more transit.
That’s why people like me end up just driving almost everywhere, even cross country. Willingness to think outside the box for overnight stays helps a lot.
There is a market for rail, but it desperately needs to be better than what we currently have. I don’t have much faith in the U.S government to address that.
A difference is that people who travel by air have budgeted for intra-city transit once they get to the destination. Most current automobile users do not have that option. When I traveled to Dallas, San Antonio and Houston, in March 1982 to look for a post-law school job, that’s exactly what I did. Same story with my honeymoon and all of my vacations with my wife over the years, other than once we drove to.
Why are people jumping up and down like chimps to find ways to inconvenience the masses? Are we sure that if we pull the plug on private automobiles we will no longer have disastrous hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, and floods?
This is not some zero sum game, nobody is trying to take your car away, if you prefer to drive you will always have that option. And in many scenarios driving is just always going to be more convenient such as a suburbanite visiting another suburbanite in the next state over. And no, this push to reduce car dependence is not just because of climate change. The biggest reason is to cut down on traffic, it’s not realistic to to build 8 lane cross country interstate freeways, they are very expensive to maintain, it’s much cheaper to maintain a double track railroad, plus many of the airports across the country are operating near maximum capacity, rail transit can help relieve some of that congestion as well rather than building a whole new airport. HSR is only competitive against other modes when distances are between 100 miles and 500 miles, meaning a sweet spot at around 300 miles. Most people wouldn’t want to drive those distances if they could avoid it, and with flying it’s expensive and you waste a lot of time just waiting to board and unboarding the plane, at those distances the waiting can be longer than the actual flight.
But as the Northeast regional shows, hsr isn’t everything as it is more popular than the Acela due to it being cheaper. So even having normal trains running frequently and reliably between large congested cities is a big help.
*also people tend to forget that driving cost isn’t just the gas you consume but also the miles you add to your odometer, which means more frequent oil changes and the resale price is diminished.
This is not some zero sum game, nobody is trying to take your car away, if you prefer to drive you will always have that option. And in many scenarios driving is just always going to be more convenient such as a suburbanite visiting another suburbanite in the next state over. And no, this push to reduce car dependence is not just because of climate change. The biggest reason is to cut down on traffic, it’s not realistic to to build 8 lane cross country interstate freeways, they are very expensive to maintain, it’s much cheaper to maintain a double track railroad, plus many of the airports across the country are operating near maximum capacity, rail transit can help relieve some of that congestion as well rather than building a whole new airport. HSR is only competitive against other modes when distances are between 100 miles and 500 miles, meaning a sweet spot at around 300 miles. Most people wouldn’t want to drive those distances if they could avoid it, and with flying it’s expensive and you waste a lot of time just waiting to board and unboarding the plane, at those distances the waiting can be longer than the actual flight.
But as the Northeast regional shows, hsr isn’t everything as it is more popular than the Acela due to it being cheaper. So even having normal trains running frequently and reliably between large congested cities is a big help.
*also people tend to forget that driving cost isn’t just the gas you consume but also the miles you add to your odometer, which means more frequent oil changes and the resale price is diminished.
It's probably not a great idea for him drive given his age, so it may be better for someone to take his car away if not now then pretty soon, but he may have very few transportation options without it.
Something is wacky about the ridership numbers for the Silver Star and Silver Meteor. They're basically the same train, running between New York and Miami, just at different times of the day, with the only difference being that each of them might stop at two or three intermediate stations that the other one doesn't. Thus it's not surprising that their numbers for 2018 and 2019 and 2021 are so similar to each other. But in 2022, there's supposedly a huge surge for the Silver Star and a huge drop for the Silver Meteor. I think something's wrong with the numbers.
You guys are hypothesizing new routes when Amtrak can't even maintain what it has now.
Which is why I recommended that they improve their existing service by double-tracking their routes, building high-level platforms at their stations, and adding service to twice-daily. OK, I did also suggest a new line from Denver to El Paso. I'll also say that they ought to operate a line from Chicago to Miami. But overall, I do agree with you that they ought to fix what they have first, before embarking on expansions.
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