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Posted this in several previous threads on American railroad passenger service and am doing so again since topic keeps popping up.....
Prior to WWII United States had the fastest, safest and most technically advanced passenger rail system in world. Post WWII everything went to sh$t as focus both at federal and state levels switched to motor vehicles then air travel. Meanwhile in Europe and elsewhere countries no only rebuilt and expanded passenger rail, but invested vast sums in technology that would become "high speed rail".
European companies swooped into USA to buy Pullman (Bombardier) largely to get at patents. It was American railroads and or locomotive builders who invented cab signaling that allows trains to move faster.
Having done their level best to strangle if not kill passenger rail in USA both federal and state governments were left with mess they created that was starting to stink big time. It was the bankruptcy of Penn-Central that finally blew things up.
In short order the ICC was wound up and the Staggers Act was created. But it was all too little and too late.
Having beat up, run down and otherwise raped and abused railroads during WWII they were left high and dry by post WWII federal government. As such passenger rail began to have a bad name far as Class I RRs were concerned, they wanted no part of it and that soon happened.
Creating Amtrak Congress and others patted themselves on back as having done a good deed. But in reality it set into motion sorry state of intercity/state passenger rail we see today.
Amtrak doesn't own much of ROW their trains run upon, fright railroads do and many aren't happy having Amtrak at all on their rails. Worse Amtrak is in no (no ever was) in any financial position to build large amounts of ROW.
High speed rail as known in Europe and Asia is a VERY expensive undertaking. Private RRs didn't do it elsewhere in world; state owned railroads and or other means of funneling federal revenue to those project is how they are built and maintained.
I agree that the lack of HSR (or adequate rail, in general) is due to politics, but I have a different take, though I am no means an expert:
The Democrats don’t seem interested in being efficient, ever. They view government projects as a way to funnel as many jobs to constituents as possible.
The Republicans don’t seem interested in funding public works projects, or at least ones that involve progressive concepts such as passenger rail.
So we have this never-ending impasse thanks to our two political parties that can’t/won’t budge.
The problem with expecting American political institutions to operate like other nations, is rooted in the republican form - and our general ignorance of it.
In a democracy, a majority can legally persecute a minority or tax the snot out of them. Parliamentary democracies form their government (i.e. ministers who execute the law) from the ranks of the winning party thus the ruling party. Generally the leader of the winning party becomes PRIME minister. America's executive branch is appointed by the party that wins the presidency, not necessarily the party that wins a majority of the legislature. The president is not necessarily the leader of the partisan party. He is the highest ranking public servant delegated power to execute the laws enacted by Congress.
In America's republican form, the people (born equal, with endowed rights) are not subjects of a sovereign government. However, those who consent to be governed, are subjects to be ruled and taxed. The recent shift to socialism (post 1933) has resulted in a massive growth of all governments, local, state and federal (taking 44.4% of the GDP). But all this "taxing and spending" is rooted in consent of the governed, and the laws are written to exclude those who do not consent. So ultimately, the government has to tread delicately so as not to trigger discontent and withdrawal of consent... and more often than not, will seek to placate the LOUDEST agitators and disregard justice, reason and/or common sense. Worse, it must placate the MOST POWERFUL behind the scenes actors, who we never really learn of.
One of the most powerful back room power groups is the "road gang" - the hegemony of oil, automobiles, pavement, tires, etc, that skim 22% of the GDP to provide "transportation." Consider that a railroad renaissance (electric traction, no less) would dramatically cut their massive profits, and you can see why government acts like a dithering imbecile. (ex: tearing up cities to construct "superhighways" through them - dislocating thousands of people in the process)
"What's good for GM, is good for America!"
(Not really)
Unfortunately, no government in history ever voluntarily gave up power and taxes, to do the "right thing." And America's governments were instituted to secure endowed rights of the people, and are wholly inadequate when charged with "ruling" the consenting subjects... who don't even know how and when they consented.
Last edited by jetgraphics; 09-06-2023 at 08:20 PM..
Very long story short to make HSR work in terms of costs and other factors you need population density.
If you go back prior to WWII you'll see in USA two areas pop out for rail travel, northeast and mid-west. It thus isn't surprising that RRs known for providing high quality and fast train service served or were located in these areas.
Pennsylvania RR, New York Central, the Milwaukee Road, Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad all had regular crack trains that ran at average speeds > 80mph or even 100+ mph in sections. While not 200 mph + you see for HSR in Europe today those trains were darn fast and their best timetables have not been bested by Amtrak.
Case in point; Amtrak takes about nine or almost eight hours for Chicago to St. Paul. The Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha service did same run in just hair over six hours.
Very long story short to make HSR work in terms of costs and other factors you need population density.
If you go back prior to WWII you'll see in USA two areas pop out for rail travel, northeast and mid-west. It thus isn't surprising that RRs known for providing high quality and fast train service served or were located in these areas.
Pennsylvania RR, New York Central, the Milwaukee Road, Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad all had regular crack trains that ran at average speeds > 80mph or even 100+ mph in sections. While not 200 mph + you see for HSR in Europe today those trains were darn fast and their best timetables have not been bested by Amtrak.
Case in point; Amtrak takes about nine or almost eight hours for Chicago to St. Paul. The Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha service did same run in just hair over six hours.
As usual it comes down to in good part government regulations.
120 years ago, when rail networks were far more robust, the population was one fourth current size.
According to the 1900 census, the population of the United States was 76.3 million versus 329.5 million (2020).
Of course, in those days, rail was "high speed" when compared to water transportation or other forms of land transportation.
An amazing 150 years!
The first full-scale working railway steam locomotive was built by Richard Trevithick in the United Kingdom and, on 21 February 1804.
New York Central’s Xplorer, was a lightweight, streamlined trainset that reportedly ran at 120 MPH - in 1955.
. . .
In October 1964, just in time for the Olympic Games, the first modern high-speed rail, the Tokaido Shinkansen, was opened between Tokyo and Osaka, running sustained at 101 mph, with a top speed of 130 mph.
. . .
In 1981, the French TGV High-Speed line between Paris and Lyon, with new multi-engined trains, ran at 260 km/h (162 mph).
Last edited by jetgraphics; 09-07-2023 at 08:10 AM..
120 years ago, when rail networks were far more robust, the population was one fourth current size.
According to the 1900 census, the population of the United States was 76.3 million versus 329.5 million (2020). Of course, in those days, rail was "high speed" when compared to water transportation or other forms of land transportation.
An amazing 150 years!
The first full-scale working railway steam locomotive was built by Richard Trevithick in the United Kingdom and, on 21 February 1804.
New York Central’s Xplorer, was a lightweight, streamlined trainset that reportedly ran at 120 MPH - in 1955.
. . .
In October 1964, just in time for the Olympic Games, the first modern high-speed rail, the Tokaido Shinkansen, was opened between Tokyo and Osaka, running sustained at 101 mph, with a top speed of 130 mph.
. . .
In 1981, the French TGV High-Speed line between Paris and Lyon, with new multi-engined trains, ran at 260 km/h (162 mph).
No, that is not correct.
By early part of prior century many RRs had trains that could and did routinely hit or exceed 100 mph which is "high speed" period for rail. Often train crews took it upon themselves to push locomotives (yes, even steam powered) to reach "high speeds" to make up time when running late.
We are our own problem. Our government, system and our way of going about things constantly gets in the way of what would be progress. There are constant complaints about global warming and harm being done to the environment. Our solution.....throw the kitchen sink at electric cars for individuals to ride around in by themselves to commute to work or to the shopping center. Would it not have been smarter to invest all of that time and money into mass transit and high speed rail?
Then there is all of the nonsense when we actually do try to do something that would be progressive. The nutty environmentalists coming out from under their rock filing lawsuits claiming there is a small fish native to only one stream in the world and of course it just happens to be right where the project needs to cross (yet later that fish is found in numerous other locations.) Then you have politicians bickering over it until they pretty much kill any chance of it ever getting funded. Then there is my favorite, corporate America meddling and trying to protect their profits. If it may in some way affect their particular market, they will throw everything they have at trying to prevent it ever happening. You can't build things like this when you have to fight lawsuits in every county it crosses through along with politicians and corporations trying to kill it.
These is the real reasons we will probably never see high speed rail. To make it happen, we would have to pass special legislation that basically almost comes across as socialist or communist that says this is happening period. No lawsuits, injunctions or interference of any kind will be allowed. That is what it would take but that is not going to happen.
[x] We are our own problem. Our government, system and our way of going about things constantly gets in the way of what would be progress. There are constant complaints about global warming and harm being done to the environment. Our solution.....throw the kitchen sink at electric cars for individuals to ride around in by themselves to commute to work or to the shopping center. Would it not have been smarter to invest all of that time and money into mass transit and high speed rail?
Then there is all of the nonsense when we actually do try to do something that would be progressive. [x] The nutty environmentalists coming out from under their rock filing lawsuits claiming there is a small fish native to only one stream in the world and of course it just happens to be right where the project needs to cross (yet later that fish is found in numerous other locations.) Then you have politicians bickering over it until they pretty much kill any chance of it ever getting funded. Then there is my favorite,[x] corporate America meddling and trying to protect their profits. If it may in some way affect their particular market, they will throw everything they have at trying to prevent it ever happening. You can't build things like this when you have to fight lawsuits in every county it crosses through along with politicians and corporations trying to kill it.
These is the real reasons we will probably never see high speed rail. To make it happen, we would have to pass special legislation that basically almost comes across as [x] socialist or communist that says this is happening period. No lawsuits, injunctions or interference of any kind will be allowed. That is what it would take but that is not going to happen.
[1] Yes, we are "the problem" but not quite how you think.
[2] Environmental cases are rooted in "environmental preservation" (genocide) instead of environmental amplification - thickening the life bearing volume of the finite surface area. Change the rules to support more abundant life - both human and wildlife - and stop the NAY SAYers & NIMBYs.
[3] Corporations are a problem, being artificial persons that have no one to hold accountable for when their pursuit of gain injures others. One can abolish limited liability, so that a corporation's boardmembers and stockholders are criminally liable when such injuries happen, or find another remedy that doesn't impose the need for mountains of regulations and an army of bureaucrats (& lawyers) to administer.
[4] Perhaps you mean totalitarian police state in support of a dictator. We have been a socialist nation since 1933 (thanks to the permanent "temporary" State of Emergency that abolished absolute ownership of private property & authorized the implementation of socialist insecurity / FICA).
But you are correct in assuming that the government is the source, not the remedy of the problem.
>>>|||<<<
What reasonable remedies exist?
99% of the problem is the government exceeding its original delegation of power to secure the rights of the people. (Remember the Declaration ? Governments were instituted among men to secure those Creator endowed rights, such as life, liberty (natural and personal), and absolute ownership of private property )
Another part of the puzzle was the substitution of the democratic form for the republican form, beginning as far back as the 1820s. (When the strict prerequisites for citizenship and voting were eased, and any warm body could therefore vote - preferable after getting his free beer)
When a politician will stand up in public and claim it's America's job to make the world safe for democracy, the founding generation are spinning bodacious RPMs in their graves.
WHY?
A democracy is a VILE SYSTEM, where a majority can legally persecute a minority - or tax the snot out of him.
In our promised republican form wherein all men are created equal (before the law - none higher), they are endowed with rights by their Creator, not granted by government. However, if one consents to be governed, all bets are off, shut up, sit down, pay and obey. Mandatory civic duties abrogate all endowed rights... by our consent.
Perhaps now you see how "We" are the problem - by our consent to be dominated by slackers and scoundrels who think a career as a politician is their meal ticket to millionaire status.
Some may argue that the USCON grants the power to CONGRESS to regulate interstate commerce. But that was not a blank check to meddle in EVERYTHING that crosses a state boundary. It was only to be used to prevent conflicts between states, not rule them, with a bureaucracy and regulations.
Eliminating the administrative overhead from regulations and taxation would help speed up the renaissance of rail in America.
Oh, right, you weren't informed that no government instituted to secure endowed rights can TAX, REGULATE or TRESPASS said rights.
Only government PRIVILEGES are taxable. And the exercise of any privilege is VOLUNTARY. Ergo, all taxes are voluntary in the USA. We just don't know how and when we volunteered.
- - - -
Let's say 100,000 people decide to pool their resources, and build a rail network. And to cut off the intrusive government, they (a) restore their endowed rights, and (b) do not incorporate. Bingo. Personal liberty is defined as the RIGHT TO TRAVEL upon any road or waterway, which is thus not subject to licensing, taxation or any other restriction. And it is an endowed right to freely contract with others - part of the right to life.
Without exercising any revenue taxable privilege, the cooperative rail association starts laying track and links areas that the membership wish to travel between.
No bureaucracy. No partisan politics. No lawyers. No hearings. No liability from environMENTAL cases - they aren't an injured party.
And any profits they earn are not subject to the excise tax on "incomes". (Remember, they withdrew consent and restored endowed rights - which are exempt from taxation, from day one)
How much capital and labor do you think can be directed to rail transportation when there is 100% tax immunity -and- no regulations?
WAHOO!
BACK ON TRACK
Thank you for the kind words of support. Insults are high praise, and capitulation, since one lacks a cogent fact in rebuttal.
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