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I've been going back and forth to Boston for work quite a bit lately. From an outsiders perspective, what I notice is that in the areas of town where a person from out of town would mostly frequent, the black population almost seems invisible. I tend to stay with a friend in Roslindale and there you come across black and Dominican people all the time in mix with white. But the closer you get to the water and the further North/Northeast you go, it fades sharply. I take walks around the Boston Commons during my lunch hour sometimes and there are days when you don't see anyone with Black skin at all. You see a lot of Asians and hear a lot of Portuguese though.
I mention this because that isn't the case in most diverse cities.
Tbf im sitting in a cafe in Flushing NY and have not seen a single non-Asian person walk by.
In Corona, at about 8am off the 7, not a single non-Latino.
And this morning in Lower Manhattan 90%+ were white.
Agglomeration of cultures exist in all cities, especially the most diverse ones. Especially in cities throughout the Midwest and Northeast. Its not really Boston specific. Personality, I think the segregation is worse in other big cities.
Great observation. I have spent quite a bit of time in Boston myself, and know exactly what you mean. That's CRAZY for a city that diverse, isn't it? Especially since in square miles, Boston is really not even that big of a city, so you would think that all those diverse groups would converge more and integrate more.
Also, if we are using how large Boston's Black population is to try to say it's some type of racial utopia these days, a very large chunk of Boston's Black population is FOREIGN (lots of Haitians, Trinis, Jamaicans, Cape Verdeans, Brazilians, Dominicans, etc.) That makes a huge difference if we are going to talk about race and race relations, and should not be glossed over, overlooked, or skewed to just say, "Hey, but look how many BLACK people we have!!!"
I was born and raised in Boston (Dorchester then off to suburbs, Randolph to be exact). Neither of which are more than 1/3 white. So my experiences are very different then someone living in Wellesley or Hingham, for example. Or even the Allston neighborhood. Is that where white people live in Boston? Or Seaport/Back Bay?
However, I have heard more racist remarks in my 2.5 years in NJ than all my time in Florida/Boston/NC combined. I think Boomer aged white Bostonians are the worst, but as time as gone on… and my generation (Gen Z) has gotten more prevalent, the rhetoric has gone down substantially. I don’t think it was exactly safe to be in Boston if you were black in the 80s. But in 2023? Absolutely.
Therefore, I think it is changing quite dramatically. Going from Alabama to California mindset rather fast.
Tbf im sitting in a cafe in Flushing NY and have not seen a single non-Asian person walk by.
In Corona, at about 8am off the 7, not a single non-Latino.
And this morning in Lower Manhattan 90%+ were white.
Agglomeration of cultures exist in all cities, especially the most diverse ones. Especially in cities throughout the Midwest and Northeast. Its not really Boston specific. Personality, I think the segregation is worse in other big cities.
That isn't a good comparison. Flushing is an ethnic enclave. The Boston Commons are right in the center of town. Its mostly a business filled and Old Money area. It would be like if I said I saw no Black people on Michigan Ave. or Times Square.
That isn't a good comparison. Flushing is an ethnic enclave. The Boston Commons are right in the center of town. Its mostly a business filled and Old Money area. It would be like if I said I saw no Black people on Michigan Ave. or Times Square.
I've definitely never been to the common and not seen black people. Other places in that area sure- but not the Boston Common itself. Thats just never been the case. On some days there are a great deal of black people there.
But anyway I have a post from a friend of Mine who runs a cultural center in Boston- but she is from White Plains and Trenton.
"Sitting outside of a Princeton, NJ Target while the girls buy birthday gifts for their friends here, I’m diving into the book “Before Busing: A History of Boston’s Long Black Freedom Struggle,†by Zebulon Vance Miletsky. I’m thinking about what people said to me when I told them an organization from Boston was trying to recruit me for this job. “Boston?†I’m also thinking of my own perspectives of the city and how surprised I was that it is 25% Black.
Centering Blackness was was in my mind when worked on our first mission statement as I I confirmed there was a need for a place for Afrodiasporic art, but I credit the Younger Big Girl for challenging me a bit on what would make the Greater Roxbury Arts & Cultural Center so special. And so I realized in my conversations with folks in the community that it was more than a place to stage events, but it will also necessarily be a place that advances social justice and economic opportunity. As I noticed even before picking up this book, the Black narrative is erased in the mainstream histories of Boston.
Anyway, I’m sitting in this parking lot emotional and grateful for those who agreed to support us - me- in this journey."
Another post she made.
"and I’m most proud that I leveraged my role as an Advisory Board member to the Grammy Museum in Los Angeles to literally get Boston on the map at the Grammy Museum’s “Hip Hop America†exhibit. There will be a hip hop scene shout out map of 15 cities. In the original iteration it was 14 cities Boston wasn’t on the map. I contacted Dart Adams who generously agreed to curate a list of Boston artists, songs, and locations. This is on brand for the Greater Roxbury Arts & Cultural Center: to address the underrepresentation - and in some cases erasure - of Boston’s Black and Latinx communities. I am appreciative that the Chief Curator and Vice President of Curatorial Affairs at the museum was receptive to my appeal to include this city’s talent and historic sites for hip hop (stores, clubs) as they deserve a national spotlight."
That isn't a good comparison. Flushing is an ethnic enclave. The Boston Commons are right in the center of town. Its mostly a business filled and Old Money area. It would be like if I said I saw no Black people on Michigan Ave. or Times Square.
Okay well on the 1/3 examples i gave. The Boston Common can be compared to
1) UES From 56th to 86th Street or UWS.
2) Rittenhouse Square Philly
3) Due West of the Loop
Because they all are near the major parks and are an old money area. I too have never not seen a black person in the common. But again, to each their own. My favorite bar, a black owned bar, in Boston is right next to the common.
Had you said Seaport, yes I would agree. Even the North End. But the common? No way.
None of that means it's not racist though and doesn't still have a racist reputation. I know you heard about the racist threats to the Black council member, and that happened this year in 2023...
Right now, the way things seem to still be operating, I think all it amounts to at this point is symbolism. But TO BE FAIR, the racist culture and reputation are not going to change over night and it will take time.
I mean.... people who want to believe Boston is racist are just going to google Boston racist pick an article and say that explains everything.
This can be done with virtually any city but none of them has the burden of proving you cant find a racist article except Boston. I saw Mayor Brandon Scott here in Baltimore share multiple racist vile emails he got on Instagram before he deleted the post- but Baltimore does not have the burden that Boston does so no one cares.
You and others arent like genuinely interested in hearing anything else so I wouldn't say this is super important. You're talking about "overnight" like bro its been 50 years since forced bussing- that not exactly overnight. You just really have 0% perspective on any efforts or cultural changes that have been going on for decades aka "overnight". THe only thing I do not understand is how people who really do not know much and don't have an interest in knowing much feel they can speak from a positon of authority on this topic. You certainly know less than people who lived there and have lived elsewhere and have a lot more perspective and information. What you've done here is find two individuals doing racist things and extrapolate that to a city of 675,000 add to that the callers may be from anywhere in the world. Theres organizaitons and groups of hundreds of people at a time who do the opposite- all day long, Im in one of them. They get no news coverage and you dont share their work. But they're there and have been for decades doing good work. That is to say nothing of all the everyday people.
As Mass. said- people belive what they want to believe. NO matter what Boston does or does not do it matters none to people who've already made up their minds. Theyll call it fake/symbolism what have you- regardless of what it is. Its a no-win situation the city will just continue to do the right thing regardless.s
Okay well on the 1/3 examples i gave. The Boston Common can be compared to
1) UES From 56th to 86th Street or UWS.
2) Rittenhouse Square Philly
3) Due West of the Loop
Because they all are near the major parks and are an old money area. I too have never not seen a black person in the common. But again, to each their own. My favorite bar, a black owned bar, in Boston is right next to the common.
Had you said Seaport, yes I would agree. Even the North End. But the common? No way.
Like I said, I got no data to back any of it up. Just observations. My overarching point was that black visibility was less pronounced in places where money and wealth exists than in other cities Ive been to. But again, I will always go back to the data.
As was my larger point when talking about Koreans in Atlanta, our eyes lie to us. We can't say "there must be xxxxx number of yyyy group because of what I saw". In Atlanta, the Korean population is very visible and its currently the 5th largest in the US, but just because its very visible doesn't make it very large. The most generous estimates place their Korean population at about 40,000 of which most are in North Fulton and Gwinnett counties. Hangul is a distinctive writing system (which makes the Korean community more obvious) and the population is super concentrated, so it will give of the impression that it is bigger than it actually is.
My observation among African Americans in Boston is the opposite. In my observation, it feels smaller than it is. But we can see from the data that there are at least 125,000 in the city alone. So in this case, my view is that my eyes lie and the data is correct. While African Americans in Boston and Koreans in Atlanta are two different parts of the same point, the end point is just that: eyes lie, trust data.
Flushing is an ethnic enclave. The Boston Commons are right in the center of town.
An interesting point. Beacon Hill and to a lesser extent Back Bay/Bay Village are kind of are ethnic enclaves with the ethnicity being WASPs.
The closer you get to DTX/Chinatown/Theater District, you probably see a big demographic change. The Common itself is where these neighborhoods meet with a big splash of tourists, students, and office workers from the suburbs which are all more likely to be white or Asian.
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