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Okay, but it's STILL the Boston metro? Which reinforces the view many people have that Boston is a racist city and metro. Are we going to take a poll of how many people who yell racist slurs at the opposing team's black players at Celtics games in 2023 live within Boston city limits or in the Boston suburbs, while we're at it? If anything, that just tells you that they are LOCALS whose families have been in Boston and the Boston area for YEARS with that type of attitude, which, again, reinforces the idea that Boston is a racist place.
Any evidence of the bolded in 2023? Or is it just an extrapolation from some other seasons? Again, these things happen all over the league if you do just a little digging. They happen in Boston too.
In the past 5 years ive seen or read about racial incidents and/or racism involving fans, announcers, and security from the Raptors, Cavs, Knicks, Jazz, Mavericks, Kings, Spurs, Thunder, Hawks, and Sixers.
Like.. I would like to see people bear these arguments in actual evidence.
My point is these people are not necessarily from Boston- and conflating 'Boston' with all the other 147 towns in Eastern Mass is not really fair because some towns are known to be more racist like Saugus or Danvers. Some like Dover or Dedham or Randolph or Cambridge are not..that is to say nothing of the major political and demographic differences. Some towns are red in the Boston metro, many are deep blue. Some are 90% minority some are 95% white.
Perception is what perception is- it's just not always accurate. Most times there is at least a grain of truth, in this case, there is, but perception takes many many years to catch up to reality. Especially so when people are steadfast in their convictions.
Any evidence of the bolded in 2023? Or is it just an extrapolation from some other seasons?
LOL, really?!? Is that the strategy you want to devolve to in this discussion? You Bostonians do ALL KINDS of gymnastics to try to defend Boston by denying that its racist reputation is rooted in a lot of truth. It really doesn't matter WHAT evidence you are given or how much evidence you are given either (you've already ignored some of the evidence and points I've given, so why would I even bother). Like, "Well, that's in the SUBURBS." LOL, RIDICULOUS!!! Have a good one, man. I'm done with this. Y'all are not being objective on this topic and are too busy trying to do PR work for Boston to actually have an honest conversation about this. Take care...
All I'm saying is, it's most likely just going to get WHITER in 20 years (and there's nothing interesting about that demographically...lol).
To you maybe, but if that is indeed what happens it will still be interesting as it will be an outlier in terms of most rapidly growing cities are becoming more diverse.
If it bucks that trend in 20 years then I stand by my point, Austin will be an interesting one to watch because it will be different from other fast growing cities.
LOL, really?!? Is that the strategy you want to devolve to in this discussion? You Bostonians do ALL KINDS of gymnastics to try to defend Boston by denying that its racist reputation is rooted in a lot of truth. It really doesn't matter WHAT evidence you are given or how much evidence you are given either (you've already ignored some of the evidence and points I've given, so why would I even bother). Like, "Well, that's in the SUBURBS." LOL, RIDICULOUS!!! Have a good one, man. I'm done with this. Y'all are not being objective on this topic and are too busy trying to do PR work for Boston to actually have an honest conversation about this. Take care...
so no?
It's not 'gymnastics' that you named a season and I asked if there was any evidence from said season. Thats a very easy question to answer. You're talking about 'evidence' and "objective" yet the one thing I asked for evidence of... you throw your hands up in dismay. Objectively ....the Boston metro shows lower levels of outward and implicit racist attitudes than most metros, that actually has been studied and quantified. And again here.
and Boston ranks above average in nearly every black metric. There are things objectively that indicate lower levels of racism and some that indicate higher.
I often find the inverse- there are gymnastics to try to quantify the unquantifiable and then, of course, the portable goalpost. Because if I were to provide my own objective information then we'd be moving into the "feel" of things, I know because I and other Boston posters here have all had that happen many- innumerable- times.
We've moved from Boston (downtown)... to the suburbs.... to the TD Garden in 2023... to the TD Garden at any point.
^This is what I mean, you can't have like a reasonable , sane, calm, conversation when someone is determined to find the "I'm right" no matter how much they have to move things around to do so.
Then when called out they just leave. Idk want to tell you. I have no idea why someone who doesn't live there and isn't from there would get this emotional about one question that they have to virtually slam the door and run away (before they can be proven wrong with evidence). Real take my ball and go home vibe. If you're still here please show me what objective info you shared that I ignored, and I'll address it.
Also to the bolded- didn't I literally just say it's rooted in truth? Just one comment ago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
Perception is what perception is- it's just not always accurate. Most times there is at least a grain of truth, in this case, there is, but perception takes many many years to catch up to reality. Especially so when people are steadfast in their convictions.
This is the irrational reaction part. You can't even see where there is agreement.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 09-18-2023 at 12:46 PM..
LOL, really?!? Is that the strategy you want to devolve to in this discussion? You Bostonians do ALL KINDS of gymnastics to try to defend Boston by denying that its racist reputation is rooted in a lot of truth. It really doesn't matter WHAT evidence you are given or how much evidence you are given either (you've already ignored some of the evidence and points I've given, so why would I even bother). Like, "Well, that's in the SUBURBS." LOL, RIDICULOUS!!! Have a good one, man. I'm done with this. Y'all are not being objective on this topic and are too busy trying to do PR work for Boston to actually have an honest conversation about this. Take care...
Judging by the way you type, you are most likely over 50. And Hispanic/Latino. Similar to a gay white male or astraight white female, you only have 1 socioeconomically disadvantage and are chosing not to listen, and just execute a point that has been made and refuted down many times…. Because you have one socioeconomic disadvantage. Listen more, speak less. Especially on a city/metro you are not from/know anything about. There are atleast 6 POC on here from Boston who constantly make the same points day in, day out. This “i know better and look at this article!!†Is not helping anybody. Then when someone refutes back, you gaslight the whole situation to something it isn’t. Because it doesn’t fit your preconceived notion of what the city is actually like. That infuriates you.
On this thread- You are talking to POC from Boston at least two generations younger than you. A lot of this was very prevalent in your age group. You have experiences that may not be commonplace in 2023… its not 1980 anymore when Boston was 2/3 white. Not to you specifically Julio dude, but to most posters over a certain age, need to learn that all cities change. Philadelphia/Detroit/Cleveland isn’t a bomb drop, NYC isnt a filthy/dangerous place, Boston isnt the same place as it was in 1980. You can find articles on A B or C, sure, but its only supporting your narrative.
This whole argument is giving the same energy as trying to convince my 65 year old uncle to visit NYC since its not the same place it once was in the 1970s and it’s actually really nice and not full of crime and subway murders. But when he pulls up that one article, he thinks its a blanket statement for the entire city. Which is offensive to everyone living/working in NYC. Switch the subject from safety in NYC to racism in Boston and this is the same thing.
Last edited by masssachoicetts; 09-18-2023 at 12:54 PM..
listen more, speak less. Especially on a city/metro you are not from/know anything about. There are atleast 6 POC on here from Boston who constantly make the same points day in, day out. This “i know better and look at this article!!†Is not helping anybody.
I won't comment on his personal background or what have you. Only that I agree with this and above all the bolded.
Talk less, listen more. People who admittedly know less about a place, trying to dictate back to people who not only know more about the place but lived elsewhere and can draw comparisons...it doesn't make sense. And really is only applied to Boston and in these cases? Usually, when you tell people about a place or give them new info they are (if not uninterested) receptive and interested or surprised or bewildered. Usually-- it is in one of those categories.
However, when you discuss race and Boston you usually get none of these reactions.
You get some article and a ton of strong conviction from people who don't know the area well, most often not at all. You'd think these people had dedicated time to working with the people of Boston and the city to make it a better place like I have. I have never understood where this- pretty much baseless-conviction comes from, definitely one of the strangest social phenomena I have encountered in life.
And I don't know what the end goal is- Julio says he wants the perception to change, but its clear to me he feels it is more than a perception. Maybe he feels it's getting better- but we have no idea how often he's been to Boston, in what capacity, what areas, his own experiences, and so on.
Does he want the citizens of Boston to care about the perception?
Does he want us to have our own opinion?
If so, should we share it with others?
Are he and others desirous of Boston improving? If so- for whom or for what?
What type of improvement is not symbolic and is substantive in his opinion? Are those improvements already happening?
If he sees demographics as the key to their being less of a racist reputation then why does the CITY still have the reputation it does?*Usually this is a key goalpost moving area when people say diversity does equal a lack of racism*
I dont know i those questions qualify as gymnastics, but IMO they're all QTNA.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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It's really not about the "metros" as it is the cities. We are in the Seattle metro which has been mostly unchanged, but here in Sammamish, as shown below there has been drastic change. Most is from Asians coming here to work for Microsoft and Amazon. Our newest neighbors that bought since 2019 are from India (3 homes) Tunisia, and China.
Year 2020, population 65,000:
White: 69.5%
Asian: 13.8%
Black or African American: 7.9%
Native American: 0.45%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.12%
Year 2000, population 34,104:
White 81.8%
Asian 5.5%
Black or African American: 3.2%
Hispanic or Latino 7.5%
Native American: 1.6%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.4%
Metro Austin was mentioned in a post above as a place that would become less diverse. Data from the 2020 census suggests this was not the case during the past decade. The 5 county metro area's non-Hispanic White population grew about 21% while the total population grew about 33%. Every other race and ethnicity category saw faster growth compared to non-Hispanic Whites, who are now just under 50% of the population.
Individual perspectives are certainly legitimate, but the numbers don't suggest that Austin is an unattractive place for people of diverse backgrounds. It admittedly does not feature the mostly non-White urban core/predominantly White suburbs pattern which often exists in slow growing metro areas in the Northeast and Midwest, and has a lower Black percentage than virtually any sizable area elsewhere in the South. These factors likely impact how Austin's demographics are perceived.
If anything, that just tells you that they are LOCALS whose families have been in Boston and the Boston area for YEARS with that type of attitude,
Well which is it? The city or the area? Make up your mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julio July
That's a convenient dismissal, but why would a person in, say, California or New York go out of their way to get THAT involved in local Boston area politics?
There are unfortunately plenty of people out there with too much time on their hands who hate the idea of a black, Muslim woman in a position of power in one of America’s largest cities.
It's really not about the "metros" as it is the cities. We are in the Seattle metro which has been mostly unchanged, but here in Sammamish, as shown below there has been drastic change. Most is from Asians coming here to work for Microsoft and Amazon. Our newest neighbors that bought since 2019 are from India (3 homes) Tunisia, and China.
Year 2020, population 65,000:
White: 69.5%
Asian: 13.8%
Black or African American: 7.9%
Native American: 0.45%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.12%
Year 2000, population 34,104:
White 81.8%
Asian 5.5%
Black or African American: 3.2%
Hispanic or Latino 7.5%
Native American: 1.6%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.4%
The link below for 2020 census data found that Sammamish, WA was 35.8% Asian which indeed was a huge increase from 19.3% in 2010. Not sure what geography your 2020 figure of 13.8% is from - maybe metro Seattle as a whole.
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