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Old 09-02-2008, 01:54 AM
 
Location: Rural Northern California
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This might seem kind of an odd question, but why are some states split? I understand why Virginia and West Virginia split (to an extent, but if you have some interesting information, do chime in), but why North and South Carolina? Or, why North and South Dakota? Clearly there is nothing prohibiting large states in the Union (Alaska, Texas, California, Montana, etc.), so what are the deeper reasons for the divide? Why not a state of Carolina and a state of Dakota?
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Old 09-02-2008, 03:50 AM
 
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Province of Carolina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Territory

In short: in the Carolinas, the two territories were over-managed and people could not agree on a larger government body ... so the large area was broken up to settle the disputes.

In the Dakotas, the territory was largely unmanaged, but was gerrymandered (an anachronistic term in this instance, but still ...) into two states due to pressure from the Republican Party. Two states added would mean more Republican senators (and therefore, power), as opposed to adding just one state to the union.

Last edited by SeattlitefromNC; 09-02-2008 at 03:58 AM..
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:45 AM
 
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I don't think they were ever "together" in any sort of unique way compared to the rest of the country. Change the name of South Dakota or North Dakota and you'd still have the same situation, they just chose north and south when they made the territory into official states.
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:49 AM
 
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Territorial evolution of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a link of the history of US territories. Almost all the states were at one point clumped together with other states in "territores". I'm from Iowa, which was together with Wisconsin and Minnesota in the "Wisconsin Territory", then Wisc. became a state and Iowa and Minnesota were together in the "Iowa Territory", then Iowa became a state and Minnesota was thrown in with half the Dakota's in the "Minnesota Territory". The only difference is when they made actual states, they just did "north" and "south" for the Dakotas insead of choosing some other names.

They picked two states instead of one because the population centers would have been at opposite corners of the huge state, and the Republicans wanted two states to get two senetors. The same thing happened with various circumstances all over the country.

North Carolina actually use to include Tennessee as well, but it was split from North Carolina and became its own state. So really a better question might be why did Tennessee and North Carolina split as opposed to South Carolina and North Carolina. Or why did Georgia and Alabama/Mississippi split? Why did Virginia and Kentucky split? They were all one state when the country was formed.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Plus, no South Dakotan would ever want to be associated with a North Dakotan! Just kidding, we love our neighbor to the north.
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
North Carolina actually use to include Tennessee as well, but it was split from North Carolina and became its own state. So really a better question might be why did Tennessee and North Carolina split as opposed to South Carolina and North Carolina.
The split between NC and Tennessee is right over the Appalachian mountains, which probably had plenty to do with the split.

Since the split between NC and SC had cultural overtones (and it's true ... NC natives and SC natives do have very different cultures), it stands to reason that the convergence of a physical boundary coupled with cultural differences lead to a split between TN and NC (then just Carolina).
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:58 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattlitefromNC View Post
Since the split between NC and SC had cultural overtones (and it's true ... NC natives and SC natives do have very different cultures)...
I don't find this to be true at all, really--particularly in the rural areas. Now the Lowcountry of SC has no equal in NC, but the Piedmont in SC feels just like the NC Piedmont, and the SC Pee Dee is very similar to the Sandhills region in NC.

Plus barbeque is big in both states.
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
I don't find this to be true at all, really--particularly in the rural areas. Now the Lowcountry of SC has no equal in NC, but the Piedmont in SC feels just like the NC Piedmont, and the SC Pee Dee is very similar to the Sandhills region in NC.

Plus barbeque is big in both states.
Dude, are you SERIOUS???

Just the barbecue issue alone is enough to point out the differences.

Eastern NC's barbecue is vinegar- and pepper-based. Western NC's barbecue has ketchup added to it. SC's barbecue uses mustard, typically.

These seem like small differences, but are HUGE to natives. A member of the NC legislature ignited a long-simmering 'cue war by promoting a measure stating that barbecue sauce using mustard was nothing short of sacrilege. SC was not amused.

To the outsider, the differences seem small ... but Southerners are detail-oriented, have loooooooooong memories, and are more stubborn than anyone you will ever meet.
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:20 AM
 
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By the way, anyone who questions the enmity inherent in the NC vs. SC barbecue question should note that the battle was waged before Today Show cameras:

msnbc.com Video Player
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
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Well, if you want the real skinny on the VA/WV split, I will tell you. A group of self-serving Unionists gathered in Wheeling, VA. You should note that Wheeling is about as far out of Virginia that you could get without actually being in Pittsburgh. They felt safe there.

Anyway, they arrange for a staged referendum on Statehood and, with the cooperation of the Federal Government, they arbitrarily pick out 50 Virginia counties to make their new state. If you doubt my version, I will quote verbatim from one of the Wheeling delegates to the Constitutional Convention in Dec. 10, 1861, after the Statehood vote. Mr. Stuart of Doddridge County-"Now, Mr. President, to show you-and it needs but to look at the figures to satisfy the mind of every member-that even a majority of the people within the district of the thirty-nine counties have never come to the polls and expressed their sentiments in favor of a new state." (Debates and Proceedings of the First Constitutional Convention of West Virginia, Vol. 1, pg. 376) They added another 11 counties (10 of which had voted for Secession from the US) to the original 39 selected . And, by the way, once all West Virginians got their right to vote back, they utterly destroyed that Wheeling Constitution and wrote a new one.

The history of West Virginia is one of the most screwed up of any state in the US. And the reason is that historians recite history the way school children recite "Little Bo Peep".

Last edited by Bobilee; 09-04-2008 at 01:06 AM..
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