Better name for the Midwest? (apartments, employment, neighborhoods)

[MassVt]

..the Midwest has divisions, just like the Northeast does ( New England, Mid-Atlantic). You can divide the states up into categories, but the boundaries might not coincide with state boundaries.

Midwestern states (Great Lakes States, + two more):
Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota
These states also comprise the "Corn Belt".

Great Plains states( west, generally, of the "Corn Belt")
Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota (I'll leave out OK and TX for now; they may/may not belong, etc)
These states largely comprise the "Wheat Belt", although eastern NE and SD produce large amounts of corn; North Dakota and Kansas are largely wheat states. The Wheat belt also extends into eastern CO, western OK, NW Texas, and eastern Montana.

Even though Omaha is in a Great Plains state, it's more associated with the Corn Belt and the Midwest. (Eastern NE is all corn, anyway.)

Wichita, KS, though is in the heart of the Great Plains, as is Bismarck, ND, and Pierre, SD.

Iowa and Missouri are not Great Lakes states, but they're not Great Plains states, either, so they'l just go in the generic "Midwest". Iowa is Corn Central, period.

Are cities like St. Louis, Minn-SP and Cincinnati in the Rust Belt? Not exactly cut-and-dried, but probably not.

Amen.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

How do you know, don't you live in St. Louis? Michigan and Ohio have a lot more in common with Upstate NY and Western PA than they do with the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, etc.

Ahh, I see, you think that because I live in St. Louis, I'm uneducated about other regions of the country. Quite to the contrary. I've been to over forty states multiple times, probably more than you've ever done. I happen to have relatives in Cleveland and I have been to the area quite often. Not to mention, my best friend currently resides in Ithaca, NY, and I have been to the area many times. Upstate NY and Pennsylvania lie within "Northern Appalachia", and have a much more eastern type feel to them than Michigan and Ohio do. Michigan is not a Northeastern state, neither is Ohio. And Ohio and Michigan have a lot more in common with Indiana and Illinois than they do with Pennsylvania and Upstate NY. If you think Upstate New York and Pennsylvania are Midwestern, you haven't been there. Upstate New York and Pennsylvania may have Midwestern influence, but there is clearly more of a Northeastern feel to them. I felt more of an association towards New York City, Boston, and Philadelphia in these places, not with Chicago, Detroit, and Cleveland.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by MassVt

Midwestern states (Great Lakes States, + two more):
Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota
These states also comprise the "Corn Belt".

Problem with this being the "corn belt" is that a couple of these states don't grow corn as a majority of their ag crop. Far Southern Michigan grows a lot of corn, but once you get up a little the crops change into a LOT of different things. Orchards of Apples, Cherry, Peaches, etc... are far more common than corn. Shoot there are even large vineyards in Northern Lower Michigan as well as all along the Western side of the state.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

ajf131 is the same person who believes that St. Louis is part of the Rust Belt.

Unlike St. Louis, Western Pennsylvania and Upstate New York are very much a part of the Rust Belt and therefore share many of the same characteristics as Upper Midwestern cities like Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, and Cleveland. Both regions have large ethnic European communities, large Catholic majorities, large African American populations, lots of heavy industry related to manufacturing and shipping, as well as other qualities such as being located on the Great Lakes.

For your information, St. Louis has many characteristics of a Rust Belt city, and is even mentioned in the very article you presented to me...the exact sentence describing it..."St. Louis may be considered a manufacturing center, even if the surrounding areas of Missouri and Illinois aren't part of the region." That's actually not even true...East St. Louis produced lots of steel back in the day. Go up to Alton and you'll see areas where steel is still produced to this day as well as old manufacturing factories. You're trying to pick a fight and whine. Just because cities are all part of the Rust Belt has nothing to do with culture or anything else like that. It simply states that they were all big manufacturing centers of similar materials. And that is a single article you have presented, from wikipedia, which can be edited...it's open to opinion what the region known as the Rust Belt is. If you think St. Louis doesn't have any Rust Belt characteristics, visit it sometime. Especially North St. Louis...it looks exactly like Detroit does. Cars and airplanes used to be manufactured here. The only thing St. Louis lacks in terms of being a Rust Belt city is its location along the Great Lakes. I have seen definitions of the Rust Belt from the Great Lakes to the entire Chi-Pitts area to the entire Midwest. Use your brain and stop thinking that you can win just by one article, which is editable, can say. This city was also big on railroads at one time, perhaps the biggest in the country which it is no longer really today.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

I agree. Some of the cities that share some similarities to cities in the Great Lakes Region of the Midwest in PA and NY include: Erie, Buffalo, Rochester, Meadville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Youngstown, etc.

That's just it though...SOME similarities, SOME...culturally and architecturally these cities have more in common with the Northeast than with the Midwest. I never said once that there was zero in common between these cities and the Great Lakes region. However, there are more differences than their our similarities. jjacob wants to say that Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York all belong in the same region, and that is far more laughable than considering St. Louis part of the Rust Belt, which actually has a large amount of truth to it. Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and St. Louis, while not always included in the Rust Belt, are very often referred to when describing it..they are not the stereotypical Rust Belt cities, but I have heard them included more often than excluded. If you want to tell me I'm wrong, you might as well tell the St. Louis Post Dispatch, which does far more digging than anybody on this forum, that they are wrong.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by ajf131

That's just it though...SOME similarities, SOME...culturally and architecturally these cities have more in common with the Northeast than with the Midwest. I never said once that there was zero in common between these cities and the Great Lakes region. However, there are more differences than their our similarities. jjacob wants to say that Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New York all belong in the same region, and that is far more laughable than considering St. Louis part of the Rust Belt, which actually has a large amount of truth to it. Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and St. Louis, while not always included in the Rust Belt, are very often referred to when describing it..they are not the stereotypical Rust Belt cities, but I have heard them included more often than excluded. If you want to tell me I'm wrong, you might as well tell the St. Louis Post Dispatch, which does far more digging than anybody on this forum, that they are wrong.

Actually, parts of NE Ohio are considered to be part of the Appalachians now according to one group that promotes economic development. I think areas of NW PA and western NY do share a common manufacturing and industrial heritage that is common throughout much of the Great Lakes region. That is why I only consider cities close to the Great Lakes in PA and NY as having some solid economic similarities with cities a bit further west. Pittsburgh is the largest city in the Appalachians, though. The demographics in the rural counties surrounding Pittsburgh are all very Appalachian.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Actually, parts of NE Ohio are considered to be part of the Appalachians now according to one group that promotes economic development. I think areas of NW PA and western NY do share a common manufacturing and industrial heritage that is common throughout much of the Great Lakes region. That is why I only consider cities close to the Great Lakes in PA and NY as having some solid economic similarities with cities a bit further west. Pittsburgh is the largest city in the Appalachians, though. The demographics in the rural counties surrounding Pittsburgh are all very Appalachian.

I agree that some of NE Ohio lies in the Appalachian foothills. Cleveland is roughly just to the west/northwest of where I would say this region starts. much of N/E Ohio lies within the Lake Erie watershed and plain though, especially along Interstate 90. Some of Ohio lies within the Appalachian foothills. However, the true Appalachian Mountains become defined once you get into Pennsylvania and New York. They are merely foothills in most of Ohio. I agree that the Great Lakes Region can be defined broadly in terms of the manufacturing and industrial heritage...however, these are separated by clear cultural differences. In one respect, the cities of the Great Lakes are a single region, but in many other respects, they are not.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Actually, parts of NE Ohio are considered to be part of the Appalachians now according to one group that promotes economic development. I think areas of NW PA and western NY do share a common manufacturing and industrial heritage that is common throughout much of the Great Lakes region. That is why I only consider cities close to the Great Lakes in PA and NY as having some solid economic similarities with cities a bit further west. Pittsburgh is the largest city in the Appalachians, though. The demographics in the rural counties surrounding Pittsburgh are all very Appalachian.

What do you mean by that?

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Katiana

What do you mean by that?

What geographical region do you think Pittsburgh is in, then?
The areas south of Pittsburgh have that hilly rough topography that is common in areas of WV. Also, the population is generally not diverse at all with aging demographics. This is a common theme in many of the more rural areas in the Appalachians these days

[Katarina Witt]

I meant what did you mean about the demographics? I am from Pittsburgh. I know it's in the Appalachians. An aging population is not confined to Appalachia. It's similar in a lot of rural areas in the midwest.