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Also, anyone know what's up with some native Chicagoans pronouncing it "Chicawgo", with other native Chicagoans pronounce it "Chicahhgo". Is that a North Side/South Side thing or something?
I still don't quite know why that is. I had to stop and think, but upon reflection, I guess I'm more of a 'Chicawgo' person myself, but I've heard it pronounced both ways by people who have lived around here their whole lives as I have (I grew up in the S. Burbs), and don't really know how it breaks down, or why there are those two ways of saying it (and neither are wrong in my opinion).
Everyone I know from Michigan has the NCS. I work with several Michiganders. Indiana, I'm not so sure. My DD went to college in Ind., never noticed the accent.
A western accent is about as "neutral" as it gets. Sort of like the Robo-calls. Sarah Palin's accent is Minnesotan; supposedly this is b/c a lot of Minnesotans settled the Matsunska (sp?) Valley and brought their eek cents (accents) with them.
You may not be aware of it, but it's distinctive to just about anyone else who is not constantly around it. Your inability to observe it doesn't mean nobody else can.
Is there any reason why you're being so especially obnoxious, Drover?
I too have never, ever heard this supposed NCS. I certainly don't speak that way, and count me as born/raised in the NCS area. I used to spend about a month every year in MI for client audits, and still... never heard anything like this. I'm not from the state, and can vouch for the fact that "NCS" is mostly "BS".
Michigan does not have this NCS situation going on. I don't hear it in Chicago, either. I've never heard of it, in fact, because anyone with a basic education does not pronounce "hot" like "hat". That's simply criminally stupid.
That's because you to you hat sounds like "het", dat like "det" and tap like
"tep" This is why it's called a vowel shift.
Most of the people I know from Michigan seem to think they don't have an accent when in fact it is easily recognizable to people who are not from the Great Lakes region.
No. This is completely wrong.
I don't understand this need to assign people from Michigan special accents. Michiganders have the most basic accents you'll find anywhere in the country, and it's as though every linguist considers it their personal duty to come up with some stupid and insane theory as to how Michigan English is different.
NO ONE in Michigan confuses "dat" for "det". Daat vs. deht. There's always a very specific tonal shift from Michiganders which specifies the difference between "a" and "e", and no amount of insane theories is going to prove otherwise if you've ever spent time there.
Christ, I'm on the phone right now with three Michiganders, and they all passed the test. One from Detroit-metro, the other from Royal Oak and the third from Grand Rapids.
And you know what? Not a single one confused "dat" for "det", "tap" for "top" or "het" for "hat".
So from the state of Michigan and their representatives, I have been asked to tell you that you are officially "retarded". That's reee-tar-dead.
I too have never, ever heard this supposed NCS. I certainly don't speak that way, and count me as born/raised in the NCS area. I used to spend about a month every year in MI for client audits, and still... never heard anything like this. I'm not from the state, and can vouch for the fact that "NCS" is mostly "BS".
Michigan does not have this NCS situation going on. I don't hear it in Chicago, either. I've never heard of it, in fact, because anyone with a basic education does not pronounce "hot" like "hat". That's simply criminally stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy17
That's because you to you hat sounds like "het", dat like "det" and tap like
"tep" This is why it's called a vowel shift.
Most of the people I know from Michigan seem to think they don't have an accent when in fact it is easily recognizable to people who are not from the Great Lakes region.
Yes. Part of the shift:
hot => hat => het/heeyut (in one syllable)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around
In Rochester, they say "heeyut" (all one syllable) for hat, "teeyup" for tap, etc.
NCS speakers' hot sounds like hat to those outside of the NCS areas.
Is there any reason why you're being so especially obnoxious, Drover?
I too have never, ever heard this supposed NCS. I certainly don't speak that way, and count me as born/raised in the NCS area. I used to spend about a month every year in MI for client audits, and still... never heard anything like this. I'm not from the state, and can vouch for the fact that "NCS" is mostly "BS".
Michigan does not have this NCS situation going on. I don't hear it in Chicago, either. I've never heard of it, in fact, because anyone with a basic education does not pronounce "hot" like "hat". That's simply criminally stupid.
So you, an anonymous person on the Internet, asserts that the NCS is BS because you can't hear it. Forgive me, but tend to believe the research on this subject listed below over whatever chip you have on your shoulder against the accents that are commonly attributed to the Great Lakes region.
I don't understand this need to assign people from Michigan special accents. Michiganders have the most basic accents you'll find anywhere in the country, and it's as though every linguist considers it their personal duty to come up with some stupid and insane theory as to how Michigan English is different.
Ha ha, you make it sound like all the linguists are ganging up on the poor Michiganders What exactly is so bad about having a marked regional accent? My point is that they should embrace it instead of sticking to the old "we talk like all the newcasters talk/our accent is standard American".
Cuz you don't and it's not. http://www.michigannative.com/ma_home.shtml
So you, an anonymous person on the Internet, asserts that the NCS is BS because you can't hear it. Forgive me, but tend to believe the research on this subject listed below over whatever chip you have on your shoulder against the accents that are commonly attributed to the Great Lakes region.
It is funny to me, I never thought about it before, but last weekend when I was visiting family in Michigan, I noticed this shift to the point it started to annoy me. My cousins were immediatly saying people I heard talking like that are not from Michigan. I countered with "you have lived in Michigan your whole life."
I certainly wouldn't call Michigan speech a "marked regional accent." Come on, it's not like we're from New York, Boston, or South Carolina. However, I do think the NCS exists, but I don't hear it as an accent. To me (I'm from Michigan), people from outside of the Great Lakes seem like they have a vowel shift. They pronounce "hat" like "hot," "tap" like "top," and "pen" like "pin." We DO sound like the newscasters (at least here in MI). Newscasters here, on Michigan stations, sound like any other Michigander, with NO accent, at least to my MI ears.
I have also met many people from Buffalo and Rochester and was surprised that they DIDN'T have an accent! Western N.Y., unlike the rest of the state, speaks without an accent.
I certainly wouldn't call Michigan speech a "marked regional accent." Come on, it's not like we're from New York, Boston, or South Carolina. However, I do think the NCS exists, but I don't hear it as an accent. To me (I'm from Michigan), people from outside of the Great Lakes seem like they have a vowel shift. They pronounce "hat" like "hot," "tap" like "top," and "pen" like "pin." We DO sound like the newscasters (at least here in MI). Newscasters here, on Michigan stations, sound like any other Michigander, with NO accent, at least to my MI ears.
I have also met many people from Buffalo and Rochester and was surprised that they DIDN'T have an accent! Western N.Y., unlike the rest of the state, speaks without an accent.
Those of us with "Midlands" accents do not pronounce "hat", "tap", and "pen" as you describe. In some areas, the "at" sound gets exaggerated, sounds like taaap, but not like "top". "Pen" sounds like, well, pen. It is hilarious that you think Michiganders and western NYers have no accent. Both areas have regional accents, and they are slightly different.
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This is why it's called a vowel shift.
What exactly is so bad about having a marked regional accent? My point is that they should embrace it instead of sticking to the old "we talk like all the newcasters talk/our accent is standard American".
