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The cities I named are north of I-80 (Chicago, Minneapolis, and Milwaukee). If you compare winter temps in say Minneapolis with St. Louis, the average HIGH temp in Mpls. is oftentimes lower than the average LOW in St. Louis. The 20 inches of snow that STL receives is less than half of the average snowfall that even Madison, WI gets in an avergae year. Believe me, I lived in Green Bay for 8 years and in STL most of my life before that and the winters in STL are nothing compared to what Green Bay gets. I also spent 3 years in Lexington, KY and the weather there is much more comparable to what STL gets in the winter.
Even Madison, WI...you honestly think their winters are pathetic? Most cities get less than half of what Madison, WI gets. I never even argued that St. Louis' winters compare to the Twin Cities, Green Bay, or Chicago.. why are you putting words in my mouth? You almost want to say St. Louis' winters compare more to that of Southern cities. That's not true. Indianapolis, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Kansas City have more or less very similar winters to St. Louis. St. Louis is generally colder and snowier than Louisville and Lexington. But I would agree St. Louis is more like those Kentucky cities than cities on the Great Lakes where weather is concerned. It's geographically central location means that its weather is capable of just about anything except hurricanes and tropical storms.
Even Madison, WI...you honestly think their winters are pathetic? Most cities get less than half of what Madison, WI gets. I never even argued that St. Louis' winters compare to the Twin Cities, Green Bay, or Chicago.. why are you putting words in my mouth? You almost want to say St. Louis' winters compare more to that of Southern cities. That's not true. Indianapolis, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Kansas City have more or less very similar winters to St. Louis. St. Louis is generally colder and snowier than Louisville and Lexington. But I would agree St. Louis is more like those Kentucky cities than cities on the Great Lakes where weather is concerned. It's geographically central location means that its weather is capable of just about anything except hurricanes and tropical storms.
The person who started this blog was from Chicago and asked what locations had suprisingly mild winters. Well, this is all relative of course, depending on what you are accustomed to. My point is that, for NOT being that far south, St. Louis has mild winters compared to even Madison, WI (which is only about 300 miles north of STL). You can take anyone from Chicagoland, Wisconsin, Michigan, or other points north in the midwest and you woulod have a difficult time convincing them that St. louis winters are all that bad. In fact, most people that I know that live in Chicago and Wisconsin have commented on how mild St. Louis winters are relative to where they live.
New York - and really the whole Northeast Corridor - is certainly not warm, but it's really not as cold as people think. It rarely stays below freezing for more than a few days. The avg. high low for January, the coldest month, is something like 37/25 (I may be off by a degree or two, you can look it up). It snows, but not that often most winters, and temperatures do not stay below freezing long enough for it to stick around, really. The coldest temp of the year is typically around 10F, and even January is punctuated by sunny days with highs in the 40s.
That said, every few years we'll get a pretty severe cold snap. This past January was very cold, though February hasn't been bad. Still, people tend to think winter in New York is frigid, but it's generally quite bearable, and even pleasant, at times.
The person who started this blog was from Chicago and asked what locations had suprisingly mild winters. Well, this is all relative of course, depending on what you are accustomed to. My point is that, for NOT being that far south, St. Louis has mild winters compared to even Madison, WI (which is only about 300 miles north of STL). You can take anyone from Chicagoland, Wisconsin, Michigan, or other points north in the midwest and you woulod have a difficult time convincing them that St. louis winters are all that bad. In fact, most people that I know that live in Chicago and Wisconsin have commented on how mild St. Louis winters are relative to where they live.
That does not surprise me, but at the same time, I doubt those people would say that St. Louis has mild winters by themselves. Compared to places on the Great Lakes, yes, St. Louis' winters are milder. But St. Louis' winters are NOT mild. They get quite cold and again while they don't snow like on the Great Lakes, they still get a decent amount of snow. St. Louis' winters are what I would call moderately severe to moderate. Chicago's winters are just downright severe. 300 miles north makes a big difference in climate change. I'm presuming you underestimate how far north Madison is. Most of Illinois, Indiana, and most of Ohio except for the parts north and just south of Interstate 80 are not much different from St. Louis. Most people in the areas you describe would think Indy, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Kansas City all have mild winters, but that is because they are on the extreme end of harsh winters. The point is that these are areas much further north than you give them credit for. I'm tired of this argument and if you have trouble accepting what I am saying, which is more or less what you are saying, then I guess you just want to fight. I happen be used to Cleveland's winters as well as Chicago's, and St. Louis is perfectly capable of being extremely cold and snowy like they are, just not for as long usually. All three of these cities relapse into warm temperatures occasionally in the winter, St. Louis just does it more often because it is further south. You can bicker and try and protest all you want, but you know it's true, so just stop trying to force your opinions on me.
That does not surprise me, but at the same time, I doubt those people would say that St. Louis has mild winters by themselves. Compared to places on the Great Lakes, yes, St. Louis' winters are milder. But St. Louis' winters are NOT mild. They get quite cold and again while they don't snow like on the Great Lakes, they still get a decent amount of snow. St. Louis' winters are what I would call moderately severe to moderate. Chicago's winters are just downright severe. 300 miles north makes a big difference in climate change. I'm presuming you underestimate how far north Madison is. Most of Illinois, Indiana, and most of Ohio except for the parts north and just south of Interstate 80 are not much different from St. Louis. Most people in the areas you describe would think Indy, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Kansas City all have mild winters, but that is because they are on the extreme end of harsh winters. The point is that these are areas much further north than you give them credit for. I'm tired of this argument and if you have trouble accepting what I am saying, which is more or less what you are saying, then I guess you just want to fight. I happen be used to Cleveland's winters as well as Chicago's, and St. Louis is perfectly capable of being extremely cold and snowy like they are, just not for as long usually. All three of these cities relapse into warm temperatures occasionally in the winter, St. Louis just does it more often because it is further south. You can bicker and try and protest all you want, but you know it's true, so just stop trying to force your opinions on me.
Wow. You are defensive...So much for any type of constructive dialogue on this forum. Good riddance.
St Louis is mild if you're from the upper Midwest (MN, WI, MI, IL except southern IL), heck even parts of IOWA get a bit warmer, earlier and more consistently in spring than WI although not nearly as much as St Louis but noticeable if you pay attention. I believe this is due to most winds in the spring are out of the south.
Like I posted before, St Louis averages literally 9-15 degrees warmer than Milwauke in EVERY month of the year, incl. winter. St Louis has hotter, more humid summers for sure but the trade off is milder winters.
of course it will get cold and sometimes snow in St Louis but not nearly as much as the Upper Midwest cities. If you consider St Louis midwest, and I do, it has the most mild weather of any midwestern city. Louisville and Cinny are similar but some wouldn't consider them midwest.
St Louis is mild if you're from the upper Midwest (MN, WI, MI, IL except southern IL), heck even parts of IOWA get a bit warmer, earlier and more consistently in spring than WI although not nearly as much as St Louis but noticeable if you pay attention. I believe this is due to most winds in the spring are out of the south.
Like I posted before, St Louis averages literally 9-15 degrees warmer than Milwauke in EVERY month of the year, incl. winter. St Louis has hotter, more humid summers for sure but the trade off is milder winters.
of course it will get cold and sometimes snow in St Louis but not nearly as much as the Upper Midwest cities. If you consider St Louis midwest, and I do, it has the most mild weather of any midwestern city. Louisville and Cinny are similar but some wouldn't consider them midwest.
Regardless, as I have said before, though St. Louis is 9 to 15 degrees warmer than Milwaukee, this is consistent with the difference in latitudes between those two cities. Louisville is definitely not the Midwest, though its climate resembles that of a Midwestern city. Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Kansas City all have very similar climates. Cold winters with snow, very hot and humid summers, beautiful falls and springs. Indianapolis and Columbus are only slightly colder and snowier in the winter and only slightly cooler in the summer. The Upper Midwest and the Lower Midwest have very different climates from one another. Missouri and most of Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio all have very similar climates. These areas comprise the Lower Midwest. Kentucky has a similar climate, however its culture and dialects are noticeably different from the other states I mentioned.
To resolve any disagreement, here are the average highs and lows for several cities mentioned in this blog direct from National Weather Service data:
City Jan 15 April 15 July 15 Oct. 15
St. Louis 37/29 67/57 90/80 69/59
Louisville 40/32 67/56 87/78 69/59
KC 36/21 64/45 88/70 66/46
Columbus 32/17 61/41 82/61 62/40
Chicago 28/15 57/39 83/65 61/43
Nashville 45/27 70/58 89/79 72/60
If you take a look at the data, you can see that, on average, St. Louis temps most closely approximate those of Louisville and that Nashville temps are more similar to those of St. Louis than Chicago temps are. Average low temps in January are actually lower in Nashville than they are in St. Louis and average low temps in STL more closely approximate those of Nashville than they do average low temps in Kansas City. You can also see that temperatures in Columbus and KC tend to be significantly cooler year-round. This is especially true for the average low temperatures. That's the data. I did not make these numbers up. Any objections to this data can be taken up with your friendly weatherperson.
Last edited by Central Illinois 1; 02-18-2009 at 08:27 PM..
To resolve any disagreement, here are the average highs and lows for several cities mentioned in this blog direct from National Weather Service data:
City Jan 15 April 15 July 15 Oct. 15
St. Louis 37/29 67/57 90/80 69/59
Louisville 40/32 67/56 87/78 69/59
KC 36/21 64/45 88/70 66/46
Columbus 32/17 61/41 82/61 62/40
Chicago 28/15 57/39 83/65 61/43
Nashville 45/27 70/58 89/79 72/60
If you take a look at the data, you can see that, on average, St. Louis temps most closely approximate those of Louisville and that Nashville temps are more similar to those of St. Louis than Chicago temps are. Average low temps in January are actually lower in Nashville than they are in St. Louis and average low temps in STL more closely approximate those of Nashville than they do average low temps in Kansas City. You can also see that temperatures in Columbus and KC tend to be significantly cooler year-round. This is especially true for the average low temperatures. That's the data. I did not make these numbers up. Any objections to this data can be taken up with your friendly weatherperson.
Ok, first off, St. Louis does NOT have a big difference from Kansas City's temperatures. You seem to think that I am trying to say St. Louis' winters are more like Chicago's than Nashville's or Louisville's. I NEVER said that, and you seem to believe that anyway. Regardless of the similarities between St. Louis and Louisville, St. Louis on average sees half a foot of more snow on average than Louisville and a foot more than Nashville. St. Louis' winters are still generally colder and snowier than either of those two cities, and in any case is culturally Midwestern, regardless of its weather. It is near the dividing line between humid continental and humid subtropical climates. You cannot contradict that, and you would be silly to try to. My sources for these temperatures include charts of wikipedia, which are not possible to modify or change and which I did not put up, and climatezone.com.
City Jan April July Oct
St. Louis 37/21 67/46 89/70 69/48
Louisville 40/23 67/45 87/69 69/46
KC 34/17 65/43 89/68 68/46
Columbus 36/20 62/40 85/64 65/43
Chicago 32/18 59/42 84/66 64/46
Nashville 46/28 70/47 89/70 71/49
What this shows are several things about St. Louis. The first is that in July, St. Louis averages virtually the same temperatures as Kansas City and Louisville, and these temperatures are only very slightly warmer than Chicago and Columbus. The second thing it shows is that in January, St. Louis resembles Chicago's winters far more than it does Nashville's. Louisville, on the other hand, appears to have temperatures roughly evenly split between Chicago and Nashville. Kansas City gets colder in the winter than even Columbus and as cold as Chicago due to the fact that it is on the Plains. In any event, the climatological facts seem to favor my statement more that St. Louis has cold winters with a generally decent amount of snow (historic average=19.5-22.4 inches(wunderground said the latter last year) and hot and humid summers. The one thing I am seeing is that St. Louis' temperatures appear to be roughly the same as Louisville and Kansas City, except when St. Louis is colder than Louisville in January. If you look at historical snowfall averages, Chicago as I recall has averaged a snowfall of around 37.6 inches per year, Kansas City around 20 inches, Columbus around 26-28 inches, Louisville around 16.6 inches, and Nashville 10 inches. Climate-zone.com and wikipedia again back me up. Looking at more months would show more data, but I've had enough of this. Time to move on to stuff more productive, I've got a life outside of this forum. The one thing I will say is while Louisville is south of the Ohio River, geographically it's not really Southern and its climate is four distinct seasons, unlike Nashville. Nashville barely breaks the freezing mark (32 fahrenheit) on average in the winter, as evidenced by its average low of 28 in January and regular high in the upper 40s. Now THAT is a mild winter.
Denver gets tons of snowfall and over 60 inches of snow accumulation a year. Even if it gets warm again quickly and gets cold again and gets warm again, Denver's winters are what I would call moderate. Not mild by a long shot. Denver can still get very cold and snowy...how else would so much snow accumulate if Denver didn't get below freezing a lot?
The West side of town closer to the foothills gets about double the amount that the airport receives (60 inches) on the East side of town.
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St Louis is mild
