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Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker to new jerseyite ;)
4,084 posts, read 12,633,692 times
Reputation: 1973
I don't have a lot of facts, maps, or hard data to back up my assertions, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway. I've been reading this thread with interest. I just moved to NE from TX. I've also lived in Louisiana and Colorado and have traveled a bit. Now I'm south of Boston. Part of the reason I chose this area was because New England ideals and values appealed to me. I can't say I've been disappointed, in fact, quite the opposite. This region certainly FEELS different from other metro areas I've visited. It's nothing I can put my finger on, but I've met a few people since I've been here, mainly Irish and Italian, but also Portuguese and various other nationalities, and I have to say, this region still feels very much in tune with the projected image of New England, as far as placing a high value on education, privacy, self-reliance and all those things go. Any cultural influence by more recent ethnic groups feels like it has had the same effect as in Texas, where people who have moved there from other places have adjusted to the dominant culture while subtly changing it a bit over time, not the other way around. The dominant culture of New England to me feels very much in place and like Verseau's description. I get the impression, which may be incorrect, that the academic and political scene in Boston has had a lot to do with maintaining it.
Last edited by houstoner; 11-12-2009 at 07:00 AM..
As someone who was born and raised in CT, I'll second this. Most CT folks call NYC "the city" even if they live in the center of the state 70-80 minutes away. The vibe that pulsates from NYC is so strong that the Manhattan culture is alive and well right up to the RI border.
Sorry ky764 but nothing west of Manhattan has the Manhattan culture. The Bronx doesn't even have the Manhattan culture.
As far as what culture is creeping up the spine of CT goes. There is just as much bad as good, maybe even more of the bad stuff.
IMO, CTers should be turning it's back on what NYC is exporting rather than embracing it
Quote:
CT is very much the rat-race that is the NYC metro. New England in look, but New York City suburban in feel.
No it isn't. There are certainly many commuters making the trip but it is not NYC suburban in feel at all. It looks and feels nothing like Nassau County or Northern NJ.
If you haven't been to northern New England in 30 years, how do you know what the social views of northern New Englanders are "off paper"?
1) You're calling me out on lack of experience with other regions of the US, when you've barely set foot in the very region that this debate is about?
2) You've completely missed the point I just made. I never said that "self-reliance" is exclusive to New England -- but it is nonetheless a value of New Englanders, just as it may be a value of Midwesterners or others. But it is a tiny piece of a much larger picture. It is one characteristic of many that combine to define the culture.
This argument is just going to keep going in circles unless you define what constitutes this "non-Yankee culture." In my initial post, I outlined some of the cultural features that seem to be common throughout New England. As of yet, you have not provided a comparable set of cultural characteristics that delineate southern NE from the north.
"what exactly makes [New England] culturally different to other Northeastern states like New York or Pennsylvania?"
This was the question I attempted to answer. I never addressed the issue of how cultural features in some areas of New England may be shared with other Northeastern states, nor did I bring up my thoughts on the cultural divide in Connecticut or any other cultural differences in the region, because the OP specifically asked for common cultural elements within New England.
It look like Verseau and Wavehunter are continuing a long debate about New England culture that they have been having and that is fine. Some of it I agree with, some I disagree with, and most of it quite frankly has nothing to do with the way Americans view New England at all.
Social tolerance? Self reliance? Most Americans see New England as a landscape filled with small towns and white churches on a village green. Beautiful fall colors, covered bridges, colonial looking buildings. I do not think that people vacation to New England because of Vermont's views on abortion or civil rights!
Now people are saying the 3 northern New England states have more "social tolerance". Well, there is more than one of looking at it. I ask where are people REALLY more tolerant, a mostly rural white state where people live far from each other or a big metro area filled with people of different races, ethnicity and religion living right on top of each other?
Self Reliance? Well rural people tend to be more self reliant so I give this to the 3 northern New England states. But guess what? Other states have large rural populations also, the Mid-Atlantic states are more than just the seaboard. Farmers for instance tend to among the most self reliant. But how is the farming these days in New Hampshire compared to upstate NY or Pennsylvania? Or even New Jersey?
No it isn't. There are certainly many commuters making the trip but it is not NYC suburban in feel at all. It looks and feels nothing like Nassau County or Northern NJ.
that's because it feels like Westchester. southern Connecticut along 95 (and including places like Danbury) totally feel like a NY suburb. what do you call Greenwhich, Stamford, Norwalk, New Canaan, Farfield, Bridgeport? and don't forget that its a part of the L.I. sound.
Bridgeport is like an extension of the Bronx
Last edited by john_starks; 11-12-2009 at 09:07 AM..
I generally find people in New England, both Democrats and Republicans, to be very conservative and stoic in their own lives. They stress self-reliance, education and family values to their children. They believe in offering social services, but are wary of utilizing them when they need it. This is all maybe due to the Puritan legacy.
Go to Texas and the highways are covered with strip club and adult video billboards, followed shortly by strip malls and megachurches. Go to Massachusetts and you have forests and white pointy-towered churches.
I generally find people in New England, both Democrats and Republicans, to be very conservative and stoic in their own lives. They stress self-reliance, education and family values to their children. They believe in offering social services, but are wary of utilizing them when they need it. This is all maybe due to the Puritan legacy.
Go to Texas and the highways are covered with strip club and adult video billboards, followed shortly by strip malls and megachurches. Go to Massachusetts and you have forests and white pointy-towered churches.
New England makes a hypocrite out of Texas.
Largely true though I cannot comment either way about Texas being hypocritical.
I guess this is why I've always had trouble with the people in KC. Being a native New Englander we have a very different culture and clearly they can't cope with it or even accept it. Won't be here much longer...
I generally find people in New England, both Democrats and Republicans, to be very conservative and stoic in their own lives. They stress self-reliance, education and family values to their children. They believe in offering social services, but are wary of utilizing them when they need it. This is all maybe due to the Puritan legacy.
I do not know if it has anything to do with the Puritans.
I recently moved to Maine, I am from California and fit right in nicely
Otherwise that is a very good description of the North-East.
Quote:
... Go to Texas and the highways are covered with strip club and adult video billboards, followed shortly by strip malls and megachurches. Go to Massachusetts and you have forests and white pointy-towered churches.
New England makes a hypocrite out of Texas.
I do not think that anyone makes other people into anything.
In Maine if folks do not want high taxes, then they argue over how the town spends it's tax money, and if there are too many people on the town's payroll, we shut-down the town and turn in the charter.
Not everyone in every state is willing to do that.
I live in a town that was once incorporated, but they dissolved it. Some times you have to do things to take control of government spending.
We like seeing forest, so billboards are illegal.
Billboards, strip malls, strip clubs and megachurches; are all a part of un-controlled growth. Boomtowns often become ghost towns.
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker to new jerseyite ;)
4,084 posts, read 12,633,692 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guineas
I generally find people in New England, both Democrats and Republicans, to be very conservative and stoic in their own lives. They stress self-reliance, education and family values to their children. They believe in offering social services, but are wary of utilizing them when they need it. This is all maybe due to the Puritan legacy.
Go to Texas and the highways are covered with strip club and adult video billboards, followed shortly by strip malls and megachurches. Go to Massachusetts and you have forests and white pointy-towered churches.
New England makes a hypocrite out of Texas.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. That's only true of some parts, mostly cities like Houston, which is probably the worst offender. It's a large city that doesn't seem to care that it suffers from unchecked growth. People there mostly think any and all growth is a good thing, due to the humid climate and lack of natural beauty. They figure what else do they have to draw people? But much of rural Texas isn't covered with billboards and there certainly aren't strip clubs and megachurches (not enough population to support them) and all that.
Sorry ky764 but nothing west of Manhattan has the Manhattan culture. The Bronx doesn't even have the Manhattan culture.
As far as what culture is creeping up the spine of CT goes. There is just as much bad as good, maybe even more of the bad stuff.
IMO, CTers should be turning it's back on what NYC is exporting rather than embracing it
No it isn't. There are certainly many commuters making the trip but it is not NYC suburban in feel at all. It looks and feels nothing like Nassau County or Northern NJ.
I should've said NYC metro culture. Manhattan is just the center of it all.
Why should CTers turn their back on it? That's a very snobby comment IMO (Edited to add: I'm not surprised to realize you come from Boston with that comment). They head to the northern suburbs in CT and Westchester looking for good schools and they very much contribute to the local economy. CTers are not like the backwoods folks who hate anyone new who comes to town. They are very progressive and open-minded, and will embrace just about anyone who comes in so long as they are an upstanding citizen and tolerant themselves.
And I'm not sure what you mean when you say "no it isn't", because NJ is nothing like Long Island, and both are nothing like Westchester. The NYC area has many different feels to it. CT certainly looks much different than the rest of the metro, you can actually see the difference the second you cross the line from Westchester to CT. But as for local mindset, it's very much NYC-oriented in southern CT.
Why are so many Bostonians so adamant about CT *not* being part of the NYC Metro, especially when greater than 50% of the state's population lies within the metro? Any Massachusetts folks care to shed some light?
Last edited by kidyankee764; 11-12-2009 at 03:04 PM..
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