Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Thread summary:

America: college, university, cross country travel, downtown, affordable.

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-19-2008, 03:20 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,367,714 times
Reputation: 9305

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaskada View Post
What's the real America?

Well, I think the real America is New England. Hold on, let me explain.

Ahem...

The country started in this northeastern corner. Well, it actually started in Jamestown, Virginia; but this is part of my argument. Despite the US having started in Jamestown, Virginia; for many years and to some extent still today, it has been taught that what lead the creation of the US began when the Pilgrims arrived at Plymouth Rock in Massachusetts, and the rest is history as they say.

Right? Well, not quite. But, why has it been taught that American history started when the Pilgrims arrived? Why has it only been in recent times that American history was revised to mention that such history actually started in Jamestown and not in Plymouth Rock? What does this has to do with what is the real America?

Well, let me jump ahead for a moment and I'll conclude by coming back to answer those questions.

Everywhere you go in the US, there is a hegemonic economic, political, and cultural power that holds the diverse regions of the country together under one flag. It doesn't matter where you go in the country, whether its the South or the Midwest or the West or Hawaii or Alaska or anywhere; you will notice, if you put much attention, that in New England there is a very strong New England influence (duh, that's obvious) but influences from other parts of the country don't really exist. However, in every other region of the US, you have the local culture with a dominant New England influence. Hm, interesting.

The American elite is composed of mostly WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestants), the vast majority with origins in New England. It doesn't matter if its the dominant class of Florida or California or Hawaii or Alaska or Illinois or Arizona or wherever. Most of the elite families that have tremendous influence over each of those regions at some point in their family tree derived from New England. Almost all are WASPs and almost all have a huge influence on the developments in each region.

Due to the hegemony of original New England families that rule the country from coast to coast, it should be no surprised that:

1. Everywhere in the US you will see a New England influence, but in New England there is a relatively lack of non-New England influences.

2. Everywhere in the US the dominant elite families are overwhelmingly WASP of New England origin.

3. New England has always been considered to be the "heart" of the country, the core, the center, the place that defines what is American and what is not.

Now, going back to the questions I asked earlier.

Why for centuries has it been taught that US history started when the Pilgrims arrived at Plymouth Rock in Massachusetts and not in Jamestown?

The answer is because New England's history started when the Pilgrims arrived at Plymouth Rock. Since New England is the source of the ruling elite that controls the country from coast to coast and define what is American and what is not, its obvious why it was taught for centuries that US history started in Massachusetts.

New England families were the one's that expanded across the entire nation and molded each region, injected each region with a New England influence; enough to create, hold, and develop this great country.

So, what is the real America?

Its New England, if you ask me. Everywhere else is really something else, controlled by families whose origins are in New England and who injected the New England influence that stretches from Massachusetts to Hawaii. Each region has its unique culture and way of doing things, but each region is controlled and influenced by New Englanders.

I guess you've never been to New Mexico, which was being settled by Europeans long before those future New Englanders ever showed up at Jamestown or Plymouth Rock.

And I think just about anyone who lives west of the Mississippi would take some offense at New England being called the center of the US universe. Hell, all of it would only cover one or two Western states. The COUNTY I live in is just a hair smaller in area than Rhode Island! We don't talk like New Englanders, we frequently don't act like them--in fact, in most places in the US, New Englanders are different enough that they stick out like a sore thumb.

No bashing here--I think most New Englanders are fine folks, but your view of their sphere of influence is--in today's age--grandiose to the extreme.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-19-2008, 04:50 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
334 posts, read 1,265,547 times
Reputation: 224
Saying Washington D.C. is not American is like saying the Pope is Jewish
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 05:17 PM
 
19 posts, read 84,546 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover
I guess you've never been to New Mexico, which was being settled by Europeans long before those future New Englanders ever showed up at Jamestown or Plymouth Rock.
I have never been to New Mexico, but I am aware that that area, in fact, much of the West was once part of the Spanish Empire, and subsequently of Mexico. But they are not today, because once the pioneering families that originally departed from New England in their quest westward began to settle in what today is New Mexico; they relatively quickly took control of the area, imposed the New England hegemony (the belief that such area should be English speaking, Protestant, and Anglo dominated - aka, a part of the expanding U.S.), and annexed much of it after the Mexican-American war. Such war started due to the penetration of what originally were New England families that quickly established their influence in the West.

Something similar occurred in Hawaii, a place that was conquered by Europeans long before the American missionaries, all of whom originated from New England, arrived to the islands. Once they arrived they began to impose the New England hegemony and effectively ended Hawaiian independence. Not long after that, Hawaii became a U.S. territory and in the 1950s, thanks to the campaigned started by the elite families of Hawaii, most of whom are descendants of the missionaries, Hawaii became one more state of the Union.

A similar history was repeated in every single state that makes up the country today. Of course, what I have explained is a very simplified version of what actually happened, but it all goes along those lines.

New England families arrive, they impose their will, and in the long run, the area becomes part of the U.S. with those originally New England families forming the elite of each region.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover
And I think just about anyone who lives west of the Mississippi would take some offense at New England being called the center of the US universe. Hell, all of it would only cover one or two Western states. The COUNTY I live in is just a hair smaller in area than Rhode Island! We don't talk like New Englanders, we frequently don't act like them--in fact, in most places in the US, New Englanders are different enough that they stick out like a sore thumb.
Its not about land size, but influences, both new and old. Each state of the country became part of the U.S. after families whose origins were in New England arrived and made it their goal to make such area a part of the U.S. Even in the case of the Louisiana Purchase, those newly acquired territories became states after the influx of New England families and they establishing the influences in governing style, religion, language, etc. that eventually lead to statehood.

Whether the state was as small as Rhode Island or bigger than 2/3 of the continental U.S. is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover
No bashing here--I think most New Englanders are fine folks, but your view of their sphere of influence is--in today's age--grandiose to the extreme.
Give it some thought, review the history of this country and you'll see that what I am saying is not as far fetched as you currently think.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 05:24 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,290 posts, read 87,087,136 times
Reputation: 55549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
I'm 22 years old and spent most of my life on the East Coast. I was born in the U.S. but my family's originally from Taiwan. After going to college and all I'm ready to leave here....my parents got us tickets to the 2008 Olympics in China and we've been to Europe and the Caribbean but I still feel like I haven't really seen America yet.

I mean I've spent the past 15 years in the Washington DC area, my university was only 45 minutes away though I lived on campus it was still in the area. I've been to New York, Orlando, Philly, Florida, San Francisco, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Chicago, Wyoming (Yellowstone Park), North Carolina and Idaho but America still feels like some awesome mystery to me. My only glimpse of a real authentically, truly American experience was a Toby Keith concert. I think its not just me but a lot of people who live on the East Coast and California who feel like me. Before Maryland, I lived around New Orleans but that place is also completely different from the rest of the country.

I guess someday I really want to take a trip where I can really see America, like the REAL America, the Americana they show on CMT and GAC, the world they sing about on country radio. I mean I've never had an experience like drinking sweet tea in a small southern diner or having waffles at a a truck stop in the Midwest. I'm a big fan of country music Its often said its not really possible to have the real American experience even on a cross-country trip because the Interstates make everything the same. I don't want to sound political or intolerant (and like I said I'm not white) but I feel America is being lost as our towns fill up with illegal immigrants, like is happening where I live. Now even in Idaho adn North Carolina, small towns and farm country are filled with illegals. I kind want to see the real America before its gone. I'm probably going to pharmacy school in Maryland in a year and I feel so trapped here.

I get the feeling that the Northeast is just so separate from the real America of ordinary people that our nation is really about. Maryland's changed more from a half south-north state into a completely northern state. On the mix radio stations, esp around Washington DC, pop and country are losing ground to hip hop and Spanish music. We're losing farmland and rural land to suburban expansion at an alarming rate. The pace of life has increased so much around here. People from NY bring their rude attitudes and outlook here and now we're no different from New Jersey.

Is Route 66 overhyped or is it really worth a trip? Can anyone suggest where I can go to do get the experience I feel like I'm missing out on? Is it a good idea to take a trip to somewhere like Iowa, or Nebraska just for the experience rather than to see any particular sights? How does the heartland experience compare with let's say rural New England?
best way i know to see the nation is right here on CDF.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 08:04 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,098 posts, read 13,113,729 times
Reputation: 10051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaskada View Post
I have never been to New Mexico, but I am aware that that area, in fact, much of the West was once part of the Spanish Empire, and subsequently of Mexico. But they are not today, because once the pioneering families that originally departed from New England in their quest westward began to settle in what today is New Mexico; they relatively quickly took control of the area, imposed the New England hegemony (the belief that such area should be English speaking, Protestant, and Anglo dominated - aka, a part of the expanding U.S.), and annexed much of it after the Mexican-American war. Such war started due to the penetration of what originally were New England families that quickly established their influence in the West.

Something similar occurred in Hawaii, a place that was conquered by Europeans long before the American missionaries, all of whom originated from New England, arrived to the islands. Once they arrived they began to impose the New England hegemony and effectively ended Hawaiian independence. Not long after that, Hawaii became a U.S. territory and in the 1950s, thanks to the campaigned started by the elite families of Hawaii, most of whom are descendants of the missionaries, Hawaii became one more state of the Union.

A similar history was repeated in every single state that makes up the country today. Of course, what I have explained is a very simplified version of what actually happened, but it all goes along those lines.

New England families arrive, they impose their will, and in the long run, the area becomes part of the U.S. with those originally New England families forming the elite of each region.


Its not about land size, but influences, both new and old. Each state of the country became part of the U.S. after families whose origins were in New England arrived and made it their goal to make such area a part of the U.S. Even in the case of the Louisiana Purchase, those newly acquired territories became states after the influx of New England families and they establishing the influences in governing style, religion, language, etc. that eventually lead to statehood.

Whether the state was as small as Rhode Island or bigger than 2/3 of the continental U.S. is irrelevant.


Give it some thought, review the history of this country and you'll see that what I am saying is not as far fetched as you currently think.

Kaskada, you have a good point that New Englanders have an important part of our history (and still do) especially in my own NY state and in the Midwest.
New Englanders were coming to NY when it was still a Dutch colony - as far back as the 1630s. My own county was part of Connecticut for years and many of the towns on LI were settled by New Englanders. After the revolution Yankees virtually invaded the state and started most of the upstate towns in Central NY and the Finger Lakes (see the Massachussetts 10 towns for instance). Even NYC and the Hudson Valley - the heart of old Dutch New York was changed. We do not call them the "New York Yankees" for nothing!

While they were filling up NY they continued on to the Great Lakes - see the Connecticut Western Reserve of Ohio or Hoosiers in Indiana for instance. But here your argument begins to run into problems.

Pennsylvannians had alot to do with the settlement of the midwest (you have to look up how the midwest or general accent got started for instance) along with some southern influence.

Virginia started West Virginia (of course) and Kentucky. Nothing to do with New England at all. Some Virginians and Marylanders settled along the Ohio River in the southern part of the Midwest.

Most of the South was settled by Southerners including Texas. Indeed the Western culture has Southern roots (along with some Spanish) not New England.

Maryland was settled by English Catholics - Louisana by the French. Florida by the Spanish. Not New England puritans.

Hawaii and Alaska have their own unique cultures.

So while you are right that New England is important (especially in the North) but I think other states (especially Pennsylvania and Virginia) played equally major roles as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-19-2008, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,229 posts, read 16,235,990 times
Reputation: 26005
Well, see, that's a mystic of America. Everywhere you mentioned and have been to IS the "Real America". But you want to experience some genuine 'small town rural' America, and that is going to be a challenge without encountering hourdes of illegal immigrants. (They are everywhere, and I do mean everywhere.)

Route 66 was a good suggestion.

The Central San Joaquin Valley in California would be good, too, because it has managed to hold on to its slower paced agriculture. It is also an area made into what it is by an interesting history of Europeans and migrants from The Dust Bowl. There a LOT of illegals there, but even when I was a kid they were an important part of the farming there.


Coachella Valley in Southern California may interest you, too, and you could end up there after the Route 66 drive. This is the farmland in the desert outside of the Palm Springs-Palm Desert area. Again, lots of migrants, but this area is rich in agriculture and a whole different life from the tourist hot spots mentioned.

Route 66 to Coachella Valley farmlands and then up 99 through the San Joaquin.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2008, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Chicago
4,688 posts, read 10,060,276 times
Reputation: 3202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
Contrary to popular belief most people actually live in small towns in America.
Have fun trying to back that one up.

"No one lives in cities anymore, they're too crowded."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top