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I think proposed I14 needs too happen because it would help out atlanta a little with the traffic congestion. And people traveling down from the northeast can take I14 instead of having too take I20 or I85 threw atlanta and can shoot right over too texas using I14 instead of having too travel threw busy atlanta or birmingham. You would think that the polticans of atlanta would want the proposed I14 built because this would help out atlanta and the state as a whole. Atlanta has too many interstates coming out of the area and that causes a bottle neck that's why it's so congested. With texas approving 700 miles of there I14 next in line I could see mississippi being next and then alabama and then hopefully georgia it will be like a dominoes effect. So i do see i14 being constructed sometime in the near future maybe 20 years from now. As atlanta metro continues too grow I14 will be needed too help travelers and truckers avoid atlanta.
It's not necessarily the politicians in Atlanta who are reason why the development and construction of an I-14 is not being pushed at this point in time....It's the Metro Atlanta/North Georgia ELECTORATE and its often-extreme averseness to superhighway construction in Metro Atlanta, North Georgia and other parts of the state that is the reason why the development and construction of a roadway like I-14 is not being pushed politically.
Metro Atlanta (and North Georgia) voters just generally are not all that agreeable to the construction of new superhighways....Which is the major reason why Georgia politicians often will construct surface four-lane roads...Because surface four-lane roads don't draw the ire of North Georgia voters that superhighways do.
It's not necessarily the politicians in Atlanta who are reason why the development and construction of an I-14 is not being pushed at this point in time....It's the Metro Atlanta/North Georgia ELECTORATE and its often-extreme averseness to superhighway construction in Metro Atlanta, North Georgia and other parts of the state that is the reason why the development and construction of a roadway like I-14 is not being pushed politically.
Metro Atlanta (and North Georgia) voters just generally are not all that agreeable to the construction of new superhighways....Which is the major reason why Georgia politicians often will construct surface four-lane roads...Because surface four-lane roads don't draw the ire of North Georgia voters that superhighways do.
I don't understand it's crazy or maybe I dont understand. But what does the atlanta electorate and what power do they have in middle and western georgia. I think this is how it should be it should be up too AUGUSTA, MACON, OR COLUMBUS if we want a interstate coming threw our area not atlanta and north georgia should have no input because it's got nothing too do with atlanta or north ga. So your telling me that I guess with atlanta being the largest city in georgia and the capitol that it basically has power over the whole state. i truely think that the governer and other electives would support the i14 corridor going threw middle and western ga. The only problem is getting the funds up too build the interstate would be the hardest. its very expensive too build an interstate and too build the bridge over passes on the interstates.. That's why the I185 extension from columbus ga never got supported and extended southward toward albany because it's was going too be too expensive.
Last edited by columbusgacity.; 12-17-2015 at 03:25 AM..
With a big purpose of this interstate being to provide a link between military bases across the southern US, would that not bring Federal pressure to get on board with the plan? I can image there being a lot of pressure to complete the final leg of the interstate if it extends from Texas to Alabama and then ends at the western border of Georgia.
I don't understand it's crazy or maybe I dont understand. But what does the atlanta electorate and what power do they have in middle and western georgia. I think this is how it should be it should be up too AUGUSTA, MACON, OR COLUMBUS if we want a interstate coming threw our area not atlanta and north georgia should have no input because it's got nothing too do with atlanta or north ga. So your telling me that I guess with atlanta being the largest city in georgia and the capitol that it basically has power over the whole state. i truely think that the governer and other electives would support the i14 corridor going threw middle and western ga. The only problem is getting the funds up too build the interstate would be the hardest. its very expensive too build an interstate and too build the bridge over passes on the interstates.. That's why the I185 extension from columbus ga never got supported and extended southward toward albany because it's was going too be too expensive.
It's not just Atlanta the city that exercises political power over the entire state of Georgia....That's because the city of Atlanta only has a population of about 500,000 people, a figure which is only about 5% or 1/20th of the state's current population of more than 10 million people.
It's the greater Atlanta metro region (a region of about 39 counties) which has a population of up to about 6.4 million people that exercises political power (and dominance) over the entire state of Georgia.
The greater Atlanta metro region exercises so much political power over the entire state of Georgia because the greater Atlanta metro region's population makes up about 60% or so of Georgia's population.
And while the construction of an I-14 would be through Middle Georgia and connect the second-tier cities of Augusta, Macon, Columbus, the entire project itself would be a extremely high-profile venture with a very high cost that would be one of the biggest (and most expensive) road construction projects in the state's history.
Just the proposal and pre-construction process would be an extremely high-profile venture that would draw a massive amount of controversy from domineering Metro Atlanta and North Georgia road construction-averse political interests who would raise all hell in the dominant Metro Atlanta media market about so much money being spent on a costly road construction project through sparsely Middle Georgia instead of on desperately needed transit upgrades and expansions in Metro Atlanta and North Georgia.
As was much the case during the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc controversy of the late 1990's and early 2000's where the state eventually had to cancel the project due to intense public opposition, the support of a very high-profile superhighway construction project through Middle Georgia would likely draw much opposition from Metro Atlanta voters very early-on, forcing state government to abandon the project....That is unless, the state made an extremely serious commitment to funding the massive expansion of severely-congested Metro Atlanta's severely-undersized transit network.
It is likely only after the state were to make a serious commitment to funding the massive expansion of Metro Atlanta's severely-undersized and underfunded regional transit network that the construction of an I-14 through sparsely-populated Middle Georgia would even have a serious chance at coming to fruition....And even then the project would be controversial, but at least the project would have a fighting chance if Metro Atlanta voters were to be pacified with massive transit expansion.
It's not just Atlanta the city that exercises political power over the entire state of Georgia....That's because the city of Atlanta only has a population of about 500,000 people, a figure which is only about 5% or 1/20th of the state's current population of more than 10 million people.
It's the greater Atlanta metro region (a region of about 39 counties) which has a population of up to about 6.4 million people that exercises political power (and dominance) over the entire state of Georgia.
The greater Atlanta metro region exercises so much political power over the entire state of Georgia because the greater Atlanta metro region's population makes up about 60% or so of Georgia's population.
And while the construction of an I-14 would be through Middle Georgia and connect the second-tier cities of Augusta, Macon, Columbus, the entire project itself would be a extremely high-profile venture with a very high cost that would be one of the biggest (and most expensive) road construction projects in the state's history.
Just the proposal and pre-construction process would be an extremely high-profile venture that would draw a massive amount of controversy from domineering Metro Atlanta and North Georgia road construction-averse political interests who would raise all hell in the dominant Metro Atlanta media market about so much money being spent on a costly road construction project through sparsely Middle Georgia instead of on desperately needed transit upgrades and expansions in Metro Atlanta and North Georgia.
As was much the case during the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc controversy of the late 1990's and early 2000's where the state eventually had to cancel the project due to intense public opposition, the support of a very high-profile superhighway construction project through Middle Georgia would likely draw much opposition from Metro Atlanta voters very early-on, forcing state government to abandon the project....That is unless, the state made an extremely serious commitment to funding the massive expansion of severely-congested Metro Atlanta's severely-undersized transit network.
It is likely only after the state were to make a serious commitment to funding the massive expansion of Metro Atlanta's severely-undersized and underfunded regional transit network that the construction of an I-14 through sparsely-populated Middle Georgia would even have a serious chance at coming to fruition....And even then the project would be controversial, but at least the project would have a fighting chance if Metro Atlanta voters were to be pacified with massive transit expansion.
I agree in some things that you say but some things I don't. I don't think it would be the most costly project in georgia history because most of the fall line freeway would be known as I14 has already been upgraded too a four lane corridor so most of the work has been done. The major part now that needs too be finished is the section between augusta and macon. And now the only most costly is installing the bridge over passes and making the exit ramps every mile or so. And I think that the massive transit expansion will happen for metro atlanta there's new billions of dollars of transportation money coming too the state. And even though that atlanta will alway's be the largest city ever in georgia. Columbus is still georgia's second largest city with 200,000 in the city limits. 200,000 residents is a lot for a small town feel like columbus. When your in columbus if doesn't even feel like your in a city of 200,000 people I guess because it's so spread out.
City populations of georgia 2014 census
Atlanta proper city population biggest city in ga. 456,002
Columbus ga proper city population second largest. 200,887
Augusta ga proper city population third largest. 196,741
macon ga city proper population fourth. 153,691
Savannah proper city population fifth. 144,352
Last edited by columbusgacity.; 12-17-2015 at 03:15 PM..
With a big purpose of this interstate being to provide a link between military bases across the southern US, would that not bring Federal pressure to get on board with the plan? I can image there being a lot of pressure to complete the final leg of the interstate if it extends from Texas to Alabama and then ends at the western border of Georgia.
I know that Texas seems to have much interest in building its section of the proposed I-14 and Alabama seems to also have quite a bit of interest in building an Interstate-standard superhighway to connect Montgomery with I-20 at Meridian, Mississippi.
Though, much like in Georgia, the I-14 project does not necessarily seem to be as much of a priority in the states of Louisiana and Mississippi at this exact time.
Seeing as though high-profile large-scale superhighway construction projects seem to be comparatively much more acceptable to the voting public in a state like Texas (the second-largest state in area and population with multiple very-large major metropolitan areas) than they are in a state like Georgia (which compared to Texas is a much smaller state that is increasingly totally and completely dominated by only one very large major metro area in Atlanta...Georgia is also a state where environmental and anti-roadbuilding interests tend to politically dominate at times largely because of the presence of the Blue Ridge/Southern Appalachian Mountains in the northern part of the state (a mountain chain which is a major magnet for regional and national environmental activism) and because of a state geopolitical climate that is much different from Texas), it is quite possible that Texas could build much, if not most of its section of I-14 while much of the rest of the proposed I-14 would remain unbuilt.
Another problem with getting all of I-14 completed is that just getting federal funding for existing roadway infrastructure has been quite a challenge over the past several years, so getting federal funding for a new semi-transcontinental Interstate superhighway corridor that would run all the way through six states from Western Texas to East Georgia/South Carolina would likely be an extreme challenge that would border on being impossible in this political climate where getting Congress to fund existing roadway infrastructure has been a political nonstarter at times.
Many people have bandied around the idea of financing the construction and continuing maintenance of the proposed I-14 roadway with tolls to makeup for the lack of existing state and federal funding, but Georgia voters (particularly Metro Atlanta voters who make up about 60% or so of Georgia's electorate) generally have not liked tolls historically (...the Georgia 400 tolls were a major source of contention with Metro Atlanta voters for many years until they were finally removed a couple of years ago due to extreme public dissatisfaction, anger and outrage).
Another challenge to getting I-14 built through Middle Georgia is that Georgia's state government is deathly afraid to push road construction projects that might anger the electorate (namely the dominant road construction-averse Metro Atlanta/North Georgia part of the electorate) and cause the ruling/controlling Republican Party to lose power in a fast-growing state where ongoing massive and dramatic demographic shifts have the state trending in favor of a possible return to Democratic Party competitiveness in the not-too-distant future.
The GOP just simply does not want to push any highly-controversial issues or road construction projects that might cause them to lose power in a political environment where ongoing demographic changes may likely give the currently super-minority Democrats a political boost in coming years.
The currently dominant Republicans are deathly afraid of losing their supermajority and returning to the minority and/or even super-minority status that they endured for decades from the end of the Civil War until the start of the 21st Century.
Many Republican lawmakers, especially those who remember being in politics in this state when Republicans held no statewide offices, no local offices and not even 10% of legislative and Congressional seats just simply do not desire to return to a time when the GOP was hopelessly out-of-power....And many Republican lawmakers fear that the state's dramatic demographic changes in which Metro Atlanta's exploding minority population continues to push Georgia towards being a 'majority-minority' state will push the GOP out of power and back into minority and/or super-minority status.
Most lawmakers in the ruling Republican majority just simply do not want to risk backing some type of potentially highly-controversial issue or road construction project that would infuriate voters and motivate voters to either replace them with other much more conservative Republicans and/or motivate voters to return Democrats to power sooner rather than later.
I have to disagree with you about the GOP not wanting to push for new infrastructure. If you remember when the whole I-14 program began, it was pushed by a GOP Georgia congressman along with the I-3 project. Also , business and political leaders in Eastern, Middle and Western Georgia are pushing for I-14. A cross-state interstate linking Augusta and Columbus has been talked about for at least 20 years. As for Louisiana's and Mississippi's interest in I-14, that has been tempered somewhat because both are in the process of building interstates that have been discussed far longer than I-14. For Louisiana, its I-49 North and I-69.
For Mississippi, its I-22 and I-69. Once both corridors are complete, you can bet I-14 will get some attention. Now back to Georgia, GDOT just recently as last week talked about wanting $6.9 Billion to finish the GRIP corridors. Also as far as freeway construction in North Georgia, in 2019 GDOT is building the U.S. 411 freeway connector to Rome, A project that was fought against by the Orkin Family, but now that the route has been changed will go ahead. That project was spearheaded by Rome's political and business interests.
Also you have Gwinnett County's Sugarloaf Parkway extension to I-985 that will be getting underway in the next decade, plus the slow and steady freeway upgrade of the GA 316 from Lawrenceville to Athens. Several new interchanges will be built at S.R. 81, S.R. 211, and S.R. 53 within just the next 5 years. Also I think you overestimate Metro Atlanta's aversion to new road building. Certainly, COA, Fulton and DeKalb County oppose new road building, put in the outer burbs like Forsyth, Cherokee and Paulding its a different story. Paulding in fact was/is pushing for a new interstate-grade corridor to link it to I-20. Forsyth, passed its own TSPLOST to fund widening 400 and to build two new interchanges at McGinnis Ferry and S.R. 369. As for transit funding, that is one of the reason the general assembly is allowing Metro Atlanta to hold its TSPLOST vote a year early. Metro Atlanta is a huge region and not everyone in the region is for transit funding. The outer burbs favor road building, while ITP favors transit funding. By allowing Metro Atlanta, specifically Fulton and DeKalb, to hold the vote in 2016, MARTA can get its transit funding for expansion, while places like Cobb and Cherokee can hold their own for road building.
As for I-14 getting built in Georgia, its not a matter of if, but when.
I agree in some things that you say but some things I don't. I don't think it would be the most costly project in georgia history because most of the fall line freeway would be known as I14 has already been upgraded too a four lane corridor so most of the work has been done. The major part now that needs too be finished is the section between augusta and macon. And now the only most costly is installing the bridge over passes and making the exit ramps every mile or so.
Building I-14 wouldn't just be as simple as adding bridges and overpasses to the existing Fall Line Freeway corridor.
That's because the Fall Line Freeway corridor was largely created by just simply widening existing two-lane surface roadways (like U.S. 80, Georgia 96, etc) into four and five-lane surface roadways. The Fall Line Freeway is NOT a highway that could be easily converted into an Interstate-standard superhighway like the proposed I-14.
To develop an Interstate-standard superhighway like the proposed I-14, a brand new all-terrain superhighway with the fewest curves possible (particularly over flat and level terrain) would have to be built from the ground up....A costly high-profile proposal that would cost billions of dollars and attract much attention from the dominant big-city Atlanta media, the national media and all Georgia voters....Just the type of potentially highly-controversial very high-profile large-scale road construction project that most Georgia politicians are looking to avoid like the plague, particularly with Metro Atlanta commuters increasingly unhappy with their growing rush hour commutes and the lack of alternative transportation options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbusgacity.
And I think that the massive transit expansion will happen for metro atlanta there's new billions of dollars of transportation money coming too the state. And even though that atlanta will alway's be the largest city ever in georgia. Columbus is still georgia's second largest city with 200,000 in the city limits. 200,000 residents is a lot for a small town feel like columbus. When your in columbus if doesn't even feel like your in a city of 200,000 people I guess because it's so spread out. And columbus has also decreased a little in population a couple of years ago it was at 202,000 now it went down too 200,000 considered the 2014 census.
I agree with your assessment that massive regional transit network upgrades and expansion will eventually happen in Metro Atlanta.
But even with the increased amount of transportation money coming into state coffers via the transportation funding bill that was passed by the Georgia General Assembly during the 2015 legislative session, after many years of decreasing transportation funding, the amount of transportation funding is still viewed as being very finite by many voters....Something which means that a proposal to build a new Interstate superhighway through sparsely-populated Middle Georgia would most likely be viewed by Metro Atlanta voters as pulling precious limited transportation funds away from transit expansion in overpopulated Metro Atlanta to build a new superhighway in a less-populated area where Metro Atlantans (whether rightfully or wrongfully) see the need for transportation spending as being much less.
I-14 could potentially happen, but likely only if the road was sold to Metro Atlanta voters as being part of a massive package of transit upgrades and expansions centered and focused on Metro Atlanta.
Building I-14 wouldn't just be as simple as adding bridges and overpasses to the existing Fall Line Freeway corridor.
That's because the Fall Line Freeway corridor was largely created by just simply widening existing two-lane surface roadways (like U.S. 80, Georgia 96, etc) into four and five-lane surface roadways. The Fall Line Freeway is NOT a highway that could be easily converted into an Interstate-standard superhighway like the proposed I-14.
To develop an Interstate-standard superhighway like the proposed I-14, a brand new all-terrain superhighway with the fewest curves possible (particularly over flat and level terrain) would have to be built from the ground up....A costly high-profile proposal that would cost billions of dollars and attract much attention from the dominant big-city Atlanta media, the national media and all Georgia voters....Just the type of potentially highly-controversial very high-profile large-scale road construction project that most Georgia politicians are looking to avoid like the plague, particularly with Metro Atlanta commuters increasingly unhappy with their growing rush hour commutes and the lack of alternative transportation options.
I agree with your assessment that massive regional transit network upgrades and expansion will eventually happen in Metro Atlanta.
But even with the increased amount of transportation money coming into state coffers via the transportation funding bill that was passed by the Georgia General Assembly during the 2015 legislative session, after many years of decreasing transportation funding, the amount of transportation funding is still viewed as being very finite by many voters....Something which means that a proposal to build a new Interstate superhighway through sparsely-populated Middle Georgia would most likely be viewed by Metro Atlanta voters as pulling precious limited transportation funds away from transit expansion in overpopulated Metro Atlanta to build a new superhighway in a less-populated area where Metro Atlantans (whether rightfully or wrongfully) see the need for transportation spending as being much less.
I-14 could potentially happen, but likely only if the road was sold to Metro Atlanta voters as being part of a massive package of transit upgrades and expansions centered and focused on Metro Atlanta.
Yeah but proposed I14 would still be a good idea for georgia though That way truckers carrying freights and travelers could bypass atlanta all together and get too their destination faster and come down the eastcoast and travel I14 out toward the west too texas. And I14 would be beneficial for the state of georgia and would make for faster and smoother transport moving goods from one state too another without having too go threw bigger cities like atlanta. Just look at what there doing in montgomery al there building an outer loop project that would connect I85 over too I65 that way the truckers carrying goods could avoid montgomery all together and be on there way. The same thing with georgia another interstate will be needed in the long run. With atlanta expecting a huge population soar by 2040 atlanta will no longer be assessable by car or freight anymore and that's where i14 would come into play too get motorists out/in georgia at a faster rate. You think atlanta traffic is bad now wait intill 2040 when the huge population soar happens.
Last edited by columbusgacity.; 12-17-2015 at 04:58 PM..
I have to disagree with you about the GOP not wanting to push for new infrastructure. If you remember when the whole I-14 program began, it was pushed by a GOP Georgia congressman along with the I-3 project. Also , business and political leaders in Eastern, Middle and Western Georgia are pushing for I-14. A cross-state interstate linking Augusta and Columbus has been talked about for at least 20 years. As for Louisiana's and Mississippi's interest in I-14, that has been tempered somewhat because both are in the process of building interstates that have been discussed far longer than I-14. For Louisiana, its I-49 North and I-69.
For Mississippi, its I-22 and I-69. Once both corridors are complete, you can bet I-14 will get some attention. Now back to Georgia, GDOT just recently as last week talked about wanting $6.9 Billion to finish the GRIP corridors. Also as far as freeway construction in North Georgia, in 2019 GDOT is building the U.S. 411 freeway connector to Rome, A project that was fought against by the Orkin Family, but now that the route has been changed will go ahead. That project was spearheaded by Rome's political and business interests.
Also you have Gwinnett County's Sugarloaf Parkway extension to I-985 that will be getting underway in the next decade, plus the slow and steady freeway upgrade of the GA 316 from Lawrenceville to Athens. Several new interchanges will be built at S.R. 81, S.R. 211, and S.R. 53 within just the next 5 years. Also I think you overestimate Metro Atlanta's aversion to new road building. Certainly, COA, Fulton and DeKalb County oppose new road building, put in the outer burbs like Forsyth, Cherokee and Paulding its a different story. Paulding in fact was/is pushing for a new interstate-grade corridor to link it to I-20. Forsyth, passed its own TSPLOST to fund widening 400 and to build two new interchanges at McGinnis Ferry and S.R. 369. As for transit funding, that is one of the reason the general assembly is allowing Metro Atlanta to hold its TSPLOST vote a year early. Metro Atlanta is a huge region and not everyone in the region is for transit funding. The outer burbs favor road building, while ITP favors transit funding. By allowing Metro Atlanta, specifically Fulton and DeKalb, to hold the vote in 2016, MARTA can get its transit funding for expansion, while places like Cobb and Cherokee can hold their own for road building.
As for I-14 getting built in Georgia, its not a matter of if, but when.
I didn't say that the entire GOP or the entire Georgia GOP as a whole doesn't want to push for new infrastructure.
I said that Republican Georgia lawmakers (most specifically the governor and state legislators) were extremely reluctant to push for the construction of a new Interstate-standard superhighway through Middle Georgia due to what GOP state politicians perceive to be very unfavorable political conditions.
It is very understandable that business and political leaders in Eastern, Middle and Western Georgia are pushing for the construction of a new Interstate-standard superhighway through Middle Georgia that connects Augusta, Macon/Warner Robins and Columbus....That's because such a project would more than likely bring great economic benefits to that Augusta-Macon/Warner Robins-Columbus corridor.
The problem is that it appears to be the 60% of the state's population and electorate that lives in Metro Atlanta that is deterring state government politicians from pushing the I-14 project much more forcefully.
If you will recall, the Fall Line Freeway project (which is largely, but not completely, built from existing two-lane surface state highways) was started around the same time that the highly-controversial Georgia 400 tolled extension through Buckhead and North Atlanta was proposed and started.
The state seemed to have purposefully hid the Fall Line Freeway project from Metro Atlanta political interests (media, environmentalists, etc) by building it as a four-lane and five-lane at-grade/surface highway that would draw very little attention from the Metro Atlanta establishment, especially as everyone in Metro Atlanta was preoccupied by the highly-controversial Georgia 400 Extension through Buckhead and North Atlanta (which was extremely HEAVILY favored by Northside Atlanta business interests...they even put a heavy rail transit line down the middle of the roadway to make sure that the road got minimal obstruction from the Intown social interests that had sunk many a other major superhighway projects).
Most Metro Atlantans to this day have not the slightest clue that the Fall Line Freeway is almost finished through Middle Georgia.
There has been some controversy over the Fall Line Freeway, but for the most part the state has avoided the types of controversies with the Fall Line Freeway that has dogged the Georgia 400 Extension and sunk the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc.
As for the road construction projects underway in Metro Atlanta....Most of those projects are on existing roadways and not on new all-terrain roadways (like the erstwhile Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc which proposed to build a new all-terrain roadway through the developed Atlanta outer suburbs)....While the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension between GA 316 and I-985/Peachtree Industrial Blvd is slated to be funded by Gwinnett County government (not the State of Georgia) and built in the abandoned right-of-way of the cancelled Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc (which Gwinnett County has intentionally largely kept free of development for the purpose of building a cross-county connector highway).
(...It was growing widespread public paranoia over the funding of the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension being included on the project funding list (which many Metro Atlantans both OTP and ITP mistakenly thought was the resurrection of the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc) that combined with other factors to help sink the 2012 T-SPLOST in Metro Atlanta.)
Though I think that bringing an I-14 through Middle Georgia to fruition is an uphill battle at this point, I do somewhat like the chances of the project, if the project is not perceived by Metro Atlantans to be a project that pulls transportation funding away from Metro Atlanta.
Winning the PR (public relations) battle will be crucial to making a proposed road like I-14 a reality.
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