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Old 05-28-2012, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Georgia
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Georgia: Worst score in the country | iWatch News by The Center for Public Integrity

I wonder how much people are gonna care about this in November.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Georgia: Worst score in the country | iWatch News by The Center for Public Integrity

I wonder how much people are gonna care about this in November.
This is the same report that was released quite some time ago, and it evaluates the RISK of corruption in the various states by analyzing the laws in place to detect and deter corruption.

It is not an assessment of the current level of corruption in each state.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner View Post
This is the same report that was released quite some time ago, and it evaluates the RISK of corruption in the various states by analyzing the laws in place to detect and deter corruption.

It is not an assessment of the current level of corruption in each state.
Perhaps. But where you see dark clouds, lightning bolts, and high winds, rainstorms are GOING to follow. Same goes with corruption and the conditions that fuel it.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
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I didn't read it cover to cover, but if all they are doing is seeing if there are laws on the books to "prevent corruption" versus actually documented corruption, then this is meaningless.

Frankly for New Jersey to get a B+, California to get a B-, Connecticut to get a B, and Rhode Island to get a C, while Georgia gets an F, South Carolina gets an F, Virginia gets an F, just underscores the lack of validity of the criteria. Anyone who knows Rhode Island and New Jersey knows those states are rife with actual corruption on a huge scale.

As was stated by others the last time this was discussed, maybe the states with lots of laws need/needed those laws, while states with fewer laws don't/didn't need them? There is no way you are ever going to convince me that GA has more corruption and lower public integrity than Rhode Island or even Massachusetts, where ever Speaker of the MA House for the last 20 years has gone to jail on a federal indictment. It's like a right of passage there.

Lookup "Massachusetts house speaker indictment" and see what you get. Notice what party they all belong to as well. Here is what is listed in Wikipedia for MA Speakers since 1991:

Charles Flaherty Democratic 1991 –April 9, 1996 27th Middlesex District Resigned - pleaded guilty to tax evasion
Thomas Finneran Democratic April 9, 1996 –September 28, 2004 12th Suffolk District Resigned due to allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice
Salvatore DiMasi Democratic September 28, 2004 –January 27, 2009 3rd Suffolk District Resigned - convicted of conspiracy, honest services fraud, and extortion
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:23 AM
 
3,315 posts, read 4,831,296 times
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A bit off topic, but whenever you hear the charges "obstruction of justice", "conspiracy", "honest services fraud", "mail fraud", and "wire fraud", it deserves a second look. This book is an exhaustive criticism of the federal criminal justice system:

Amazon.com: Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent (9781594032554): Harvey A. Silverglate: Books

The name Finneran sticks out from the book as one of the many high profile cases that were on pretty thin grounds. Guilty pleas mean very little when prosecutors are dangling a 20 year sentence over your head for what seems like a relatively minor offense. And the book isn't partisan by any stretch--it also defends the likes of Arthur Andersen, Martha Stewart, and Scooter Libby, to name a few.

But yeah, I don't think Georgia is necessarily more corrupt than other places. There's a correlation/causation issue with regard to corruption laws--laws might be enacted in response to big corruption problems, rather than corruption issues arising due to lack of laws.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50 View Post
A bit off topic, but whenever you hear the charges "obstruction of justice", "conspiracy", "honest services fraud", "mail fraud", and "wire fraud", it deserves a second look. This book is an exhaustive criticism of the federal criminal justice system:

Amazon.com: Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent (9781594032554): Harvey A. Silverglate: Books

The name Finneran sticks out from the book as one of the many high profile cases that were on pretty thin grounds. Guilty pleas mean very little when prosecutors are dangling a 20 year sentence over your head for what seems like a relatively minor offense. And the book isn't partisan by any stretch--it also defends the likes of Arthur Andersen, Martha Stewart, and Scooter Libby, to name a few.

But yeah, I don't think Georgia is necessarily more corrupt than other places. There's a correlation/causation issue with regard to corruption laws--laws might be enacted in response to big corruption problems, rather than corruption issues arising due to lack of laws.
My only point in bringing up specifics in Massachusetts, is that I can show you adjudicated cases where high ranking officials went to prison for corruption. Three Speakers of the House over 20 years, and they were not all thin cases by any means, especially in a state where the Irish liberal Democrats run the place. None of those three was "innocent" by any stretch.

Even if they were, there were no such guilt pleas here in GA, except by the liberal Democrat Mayor of Atlanta. So the intended perception is "look at those red states with all their corruption," and when you look at the facts, it's not the case, but that's the picture these kinds of groups and their followers seem to want to paint. They equate laws on the books with actions, and that's a typical mistake.

Then there is Rhode Island, a state legendary for corruption and politicians going to prison. They are passing laws to deal with a known issue, so the group doing this research interprets that as Rhode Island being less corrupt than GA. It's hogwash.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/rho...ic_corruption/

Anyone want to talk about Louisiana and Illinois? Georgia is more corrupt than Louisiana? More corrupt than Illinois? Really? Again, how many Gov's of GA have gone to prison in the last 20 years? I can count at least two between Illinois and Louisiana. Then there was one or two in Rhode Island. One who resigned in NY. Another who resigned in NJ.

Last edited by neil0311; 05-29-2012 at 03:32 PM..
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Georgia
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Neil, there is a real difference between doing something bad and being brought to justice for it.

When you have the majority leader of the state senate known to have been reimbursed for various personal expenses, yet a senate ethics panel won't do anything about it, you have a fundamental problem with the way ethics are enforced. It's quite reminiscent of Teflon Don.

And what is your deal with the librul-bashing? Liberal and conservative has little to do with corruption.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
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Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
And what is your deal with the librul-bashing? Liberal and conservative has little to do with corruption.
I agree with you, but I think the group who came up with this study had a political agenda. Otherwise, how can anyone rationalize the results.

Do you honestly and without reservation think that Georgia is the most corrupt state in the US? That's not even remotely possible, and my point is that if you look at all the other states where indictments and prison sentences have become a way of life, they are rare here.

If we had the most corrupt state in the US, don't you think the US Attorney's office would be having a field day indicting and bringing all the corrupt officials to trial like they do in these other "less corrupt" states?
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Georgia
5,609 posts, read 4,582,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
I agree with you, but I think the group who came up with this study had a political agenda. Otherwise, how can anyone rationalize the results.

Do you honestly and without reservation think that Georgia is the most corrupt state in the US? That's not even remotely possible, and my point is that if you look at all the other states where indictments and prison sentences have become a way of life, they are rare here.
But that doesn't necessarily mean we're a relatively clean state. If, and I mean if, the corruption runs so deep that those who should be found guilty aren't, then perhaps that #1 rating is warranted. Again, that is speculation. But the catch is, speculation isn't falsifiable.

Do I think that Georgia is indeed the most corrupt state in the nation? I have no position on that question. My mind is open to facts. But my mind is NOT open to having these troubling signs swept under the rug. That's a sure-fire sign that something isn't right.

Quote:
If we had the most corrupt state in the US, don't you think the US Attorney's office would be having a field day indicting and bringing all the corrupt officials to trial like they do in these other "less corrupt" states?
That assumes that the federal government always gets it right.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,859 posts, read 15,200,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
But that doesn't necessarily mean we're a relatively clean state. If, and I mean if, the corruption runs so deep that those who should be found guilty aren't, then perhaps that #1 rating is warranted.
What? Huh?

Sorry, but your point seems to be that you think there might be corruption, therefore there must be. Not sure I understand your point at all.

Trust me, US Attorneys and the FBI agents make their names bringing down corrupt politicians. If there was corruption to the scale we see in other states, or that you have cooked up in your mind, they would be investigating, getting indictments, and convicting. That's not been the case. Not even close.

If you have details of corruption, then please contact the US Attorney and provide your proof to them. I'm sure they will follow up.
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