Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I drove from Atlanta to Birmingham yesterday, and the drive actually took longer than I expected. I thought there was a little more interaction between those two cities, but it didn't seem like it to me. Is it common for people in Birmingham (or Alabama in general) to visit Atlanta? This was my first time in Alabama, I drove down because I plan on studying southern history for my major and I was curious to see Alabama. From Birmingham, I drove to Tupelo, MS and that drive is quite rural! From Birmingham to the Mississippi border, I barely saw anything. I actually liked what I saw in Mississippi more than Alabama, traveled around Tupelo and Oxford which was interesting. I plan on traveling around both states more often in the near future considering my plans to study southern history, I'm from North Carolina so I'm a little more familiar with the Carolina's, Virginia, and Georgia.
I drove from Atlanta to Birmingham yesterday, and the drive actually took longer than I expected. I thought there was a little more interaction between those two cities, but it didn't seem like it to me. Is it common for people in Birmingham (or Alabama in general) to visit Atlanta? This was my first time in Alabama, I drove down because I plan on studying southern history for my major and I was curious to see Alabama. From Birmingham, I drove to Tupelo, MS and that drive is quite rural! From Birmingham to the Mississippi border, I barely saw anything. I actually liked what I saw in Mississippi more than Alabama, traveled around Tupelo and Oxford which was interesting. I plan on traveling around both states more often in the near future considering my plans to study southern history, I'm from North Carolina so I'm a little more familiar with the Carolina's, Virginia, and Georgia.
The thing about that drive is it is a more populated, industrious areas. It is Alabama's largest city, past Anniston/Oxford/Jacksonville, and into Metro Atlanta fairly quickly after going across the state border.
Anniston has been devastated economically after come base closures in the past, but its still a sizable 100,000+ area in relatively short distance to both Atlanta and Birmingham.
It is a pretty well traveled corridor. It just isn't the type of place to go visit without visiting family or doing business.
From there further west goes into nothingness past Tuscaloosa.
One thing I have always found interesting is being near the east coast still matters. Georgia's rural areas (along with South Carolina and North Carolina) are actually quite dense for a rural area (still more people per sq mile, despite being rural). The further west you go that wears away.
Georgia is about 10 million people, Alabama is just shy of 5 million, and Mississippi is just shy of 3 million people and are somewhat similarly sized with Georgia being a tad bigger.
Each state west you go, the population halves in size.
The thing about that drive is it is a more populated, industrious areas. It is Alabama's largest city, past Anniston/Oxford/Jacksonville, and into Metro Atlanta fairly quickly after going across the state border.
Anniston has been devastated economically after come base closures in the past, but its still a sizable 100,000+ area in relatively short distance to both Atlanta and Birmingham.
It is a pretty well traveled corridor. It just isn't the type of place to go visit without visiting family or doing business.
From there further west goes into nothingness past Tuscaloosa.
One thing I have always found interesting is being near the east coast still matters. Georgia's rural areas (along with South Carolina and North Carolina) are actually quite dense for a rural area (still more people per sq mile, despite being rural). The further west you go that wears away.
Georgia is about 10 million people, Alabama is just shy of 5 million, and Mississippi is just shy of 3 million people and are somewhat similarly sized with Georgia being a tad bigger.
Each state west you go, the population halves in size.
Very true. Also, it amazes me that the southern states further to the west (Alabama, Mississippi) clung onto segregation a lot longer than the southern states to the east (Carolina's, Virginia). These Deep South states resisted change more than some of the other southern states further to the east.
Personally, Alabama shocked me. Driving from Atlanta all the way to Birmingham up to Tupelo, MS. I expected it to be a little bit nicer, but no disrespect to Alabama, it just seemed so redneck-ish and dated. The billboards shocked me, one read "Anti-Racist is a Code Word for Anti-White" outside Birmingham. I don't think I've ever seen a billboard like that in the Carolina's or Georgia. Visited the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church in Birmingham which was super interesting, but again, not a nice area of town. As a whole, the whole area seemed dated, unlike the Atlanta metro or some of the major urban areas of NC. Also, when I drove out of Birmingham up to Tupelo, it seemed like I was in the middle of complete nowhere only 15 miles out of Birmingham. No suburbs or anything, just rolling wooded hills. I didn't visit Tuscaloosa, but I'm sure it would've been the same story if I drove down to Jackson, MS. Out of curiosity, do you know anything about Montgomery? Similar to Birmingham? Or maybe Jackson, MS?
Like I said before, the areas I visited in Mississippi seemed nicer than the areas I visited in Alabama, even though I have been told countless times that Mississippi is a poverty-stricken, VERY rural state that isn't going anywhere fast. Tupelo was kept up nice, Oxford reminded me of a Deep South version of Chapel Hill, NC in a way, a fine college town. Maybe I just didn't see enough of Mississippi, who knows.
But you're right, the populations of the southern states are interesting. North Carolina has around 9 million, a little under Georgia but getting close. South Carolina and Alabama's populations are about the same, I believe. Tennessee has around 6 million, Virginia's population is a little under North Carolina's but I'm sure it's getting close.
North Carolina has around 9 million, a little under Georgia but getting close. South Carolina and Alabama's populations are about the same, I believe. Tennessee has around 6 million, Virginia's population is a little under North Carolina's but I'm sure it's getting close
Just remember to control for land area. South Carolina, for example, is very small... so its density being on the east coast holds. S. Carolina is about 60% of the size of Alabama.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB
Also, it amazes me that the southern states further to the west (Alabama, Mississippi) clung onto segregation a lot longer than the southern states to the east (Carolina's, Virginia). These Deep South states resisted change more than some of the other southern states further to the east.
This is partly true. There are also some Appalachian areas of Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Tennessee that also kept up segregation for as long as they could. The caveat is the areas were almost entirely white to begin with. There was an influx of people trying to ignore or escape problems with race relations. It was easy to generate a fear of 'the problem might come to us if we don't keep it away initially.' This mentality would attract some of the most stubborn segregationist to the group. This is why Forsyth County, GA until the '80s had such a bad reputation for race relations.
But yes... state-wide I believe you're right. I believe two things caused this. A larger percentage of the population was rural. The biggest divide on social issues in this country is the urban-rural divide. There is a reason Mississippi is so conservative. The other thing is those states, and I'm going to spot out Mississippi in particular, had such a large slave population from the plantation days it led to more and more to be overcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB
Personally, Alabama shocked me. Driving from Atlanta all the way to Birmingham up to Tupelo, MS. I expected it to be a little bit nicer, but no disrespect to Alabama, it just seemed so redneck-ish and dated. The billboards shocked me, one read "Anti-Racist is a Code Word for Anti-White" outside Birmingham. I don't think I've ever seen a billboard like that in the Carolina's or Georgia. Visited the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church in Birmingham which was super interesting, but again, not a nice area of town. As a whole, the whole area seemed dated, unlike the Atlanta metro or some of the major urban areas of NC.
That's about right... that's our Alabama.
Birmingham is a bit nicer than you might have seen, but it has a longer ways to go. Birmingham was originally like the 'Pittsburgh of the South.' It is one major place in the South where coal deposits were found and it led to several large steel mills. It was a very industrious city early on. The problem is manufacturing in the US hasn't been the same since. The MSA is only a hair above 1 million people, so it isn't -that- large. Many people still are able to commute into town without the use of freeways,
Much of the wealth is actually to the South of town across a few linear mountains in some very suburban like areas. They went through the same suburban boom most cities went through, while growth was limited to a weak manufacturing economy. This hurt their core city quite a bit. Not unlike many other cities during the era. I also feel they are seeing the same growth in interest of urban living, but it might take them more time to see widespread changes. They just don't have the sheer demand caused by the rapid growth in white collars jobs Atlanta has had, but even in Atlanta there are some neighborhoods to the south and west that could give you similar impressions if that is all you saw in out town.
This area to the south is where you will find several prominent country clubs, the zoo, Samford university (which actually has a really nice small campus), The botanical gardens, and many little tiny town centers that can be charming. However, I'm sure there are others around here that can fill in on this better than I can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB
Also, when I drove out of Birmingham up to Tupelo, it seemed like I was in the middle of complete nowhere only 15 miles out of Birmingham. No suburbs or anything, just rolling wooded hills. I didn't visit Tuscaloosa, but I'm sure it would've been the same story if I drove down to Jackson, MS. Out of curiosity, do you know anything about Montgomery? Similar to Birmingham? Or maybe Jackson, MS?
I'm going to anger alot of Bama fans, but Tuscaloosa isn't that great of a place. I'm sure, like any college town, it has its charming spots. There are are just many not so charming spots in between.
Once you go west of there is a whole lot of nothing. I haven't actually to Jackson! Perhaps I should visit sometime. I'm usually on my way to New Orleans. There are three small cities of Hattiesburg, Laurel and Meridian. This is also where you will find Southern Miss. Their campus isn't near as nice!
There isn't much going on in this stretch of Mississippi.
Montgomery can give you an illusion it isn't that nice either. The suburbs to the north around Prattville area the nice areas and it is very new and suburban. Some of the areas easy of the city are also nice. Auburn-Oxford are nice cities. Two other parts of Alabama that are fairly nice is Baldwin county. It has two major things going for it... Beautiful beaches to the south (with heavy amounts of tourism and jobs + low COL) and the eastern shore suburbs of mobile, Daphne and Spanish Ford. The other are is north east Alabama near Huntsville is really nice. The space center really has brought a decent amount of wealth into the area, even though it is not very populated.
The mountains north are really nice and very similar (on a slightly smaller scale) to what you would find in Georgia, North Carolina, or Tennessee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJayCB
Like I said before, the areas I visited in Mississippi seemed nicer than the areas I visited in Alabama, even though I have been told countless times that Mississippi is a poverty-stricken, VERY rural state that isn't going anywhere fast. Tupelo was kept up nice, Oxford reminded me of a Deep South version of Chapel Hill, NC in a way, a fine college town. Maybe I just didn't see enough of Mississippi, who knows.
Large parts of poverty are found to the west, especially the central and northern parts of the state in the old plantation farm lands. In many of the same areas where there was an extremely high amount of slavery in the past. To a large extent these are many people left behind by a small state both unwilling and unable to help much.
Mississippi is beautiful in parts, largely thanks to a rural character and cities stuck in time in some cases. Before Katrina I'd also spot out there are some amazing spots along the gulf coast, especially between Bay St. Louis and Gulfport.
Mississippi has some old money in it, despite being economically repressed overall. It is mostly concentrated in the hands of descendents of large land owners and from traders in our country's earlier days. You can find some really nice isolated spots and homes.
It is also noteworthy their major universities are near Memphic and New Orleans. They attract a decent amount of students and wealth from these cities to sustain themselves as large as they are.
Interesting info! The whole south fascinates me, and I definitely plan on visiting Alabama and Mississippi again. I'm only a college student, so I have plenty of time to study and travel. There are even many areas of south Georgia that I'm not familiar with, but I'm aware of from studying the Civil Rights Movement like Albany. North Georgia, as well, and I plan on visiting the areas around the Georgia-North Carolina border in the mountains. "Deliverance" land, sorry, had to say it! Athens is a wonderful college town, and one of my favorite areas of Georgia. Seems like many people compare Georgia and North Carolina today based off similarities, and I can see that a little. Many areas of the Atlanta metro remind me of Charlotte and the Triangle metro in NC, while Athens is similar to Chapel Hill. However, Georgia is definitely Deep South while North Carolina is Upper South overall. Georgia is probably more similar to South Carolina, while North Carolina is more similar to Virginia. I guess that leaves a Tennessee-Kentucky comparison and Mississippi-Alabama. Who knows, do people in Georgia travel to the Carolina's often? Would you agree with my comparisons?
I drove from Atlanta to Birmingham yesterday, and the drive actually took longer than I expected. I thought there was a little more interaction between those two cities, but it didn't seem like it to me. Is it common for people in Birmingham (or Alabama in general) to visit Atlanta? This was my first time in Alabama, I drove down because I plan on studying southern history for my major and I was curious to see Alabama. From Birmingham, I drove to Tupelo, MS and that drive is quite rural! From Birmingham to the Mississippi border, I barely saw anything. I actually liked what I saw in Mississippi more than Alabama, traveled around Tupelo and Oxford which was interesting. I plan on traveling around both states more often in the near future considering my plans to study southern history, I'm from North Carolina so I'm a little more familiar with the Carolina's, Virginia, and Georgia.
I've held off on joining this discussion thus far, but your post made me think of a few things. First, your impression that Alabama and Mississippi are quite rural is spot on. For reasons that we don't need to go into here, both missed out on the "Sunbelt Boom" of the last few decades. Between 1980-2010, as Georgia and North Carolina nearly doubled their populations, Mississippi grew by barely 400,000 and Alabama added fewer than 900,000.
Even more telling, between 2000-2010, Metro Atlanta grew by 24 percent. Metro Charlotte grew by 32 percent. Metro Raleigh grew by a whopping 41 percent. But Metro Birmingham only saw 7.2 percent grow, and Jackson 8.4.
So yes, both Mississippi and Alabama remain very rural states -- and most people over there will tell you they like it that way. Alabamans in particular love to hate on Atlanta ... but that doesn't stop them from coming to visit an awful lot!
I lived and worked in the Auburn-Opelika area for a brief time and found it to be a beautiful state. Lots of tiny towns and lonely roads that time hasn't touched. But coming from Georgia, it was strange as well. The culture and politics of Alabama (and I assume Mississippi as well) is driven by rural interests still. And while Birmingham's racial history is well known, I was surprised to discover that many rural areas of the state remain largely segregated as well. Alabama does not have consolidated school systems, and state law makes it very easy for communities to break away and create their own independent school districts if they so desire. Thus, many of the suburban Birmingham school systems are wealthy and white, while the city and county systems are largely black and poor. Even in rural areas, it's common for tiny little towns to have their own school -- often grades K-12 under one roof and just a few hundred students at best. And yes, many of these small rural schools are predominantly black or white. It's odd.
But of course, no matter how small the town and the school, they all have a football team! Football is KING in Alabama. But you probably knew that already.
Even more telling, between 2000-2010, Metro Atlanta grew by 24 percent. Metro Charlotte grew by 32 percent. Metro Raleigh grew by a whopping 41 percent. But Metro Birmingham only saw 7.2 percent grow, and Jackson 8.4.
Well to be fair, Huntsville grew by 22% during that same period, but it's not a large metro area at all. It's probably the only true "New South" metro between the two states.
Quote:
I lived and worked in the Auburn-Opelika area for a brief time and found it to be a beautiful state. Lots of tiny towns and lonely roads that time hasn't touched. But coming from Georgia, it was strange as well. The culture and politics of Alabama (and I assume Mississippi as well) is driven by rural interests still.
Well that's true to an extent in Georgia as well, but I can imagine it's much worse in AL and MS.
I see lots of Georgia plates (mostly Atlanta metro counties) at the Indian casino in my town, and I'm way over towards Mobile. Maybe they're just stopping to gamble on their way to Texas or something, I don't know, but I notice them every time I'm there.
I travel in Georgia every year, and I don't think Alabama is any more "dated or redneckish". Sure most of Alabama will seem rural compared to Atlanta, but to say the whole state of Georgia is somehow nicer or more advanced is misleading. When I cross the state line into Georgia I'm not thinking "wow this place looks so much nicer". There's places near Atlanta that I thought looked like a dump, Union City is a good example.
Outside of the Atlanta metro area, and maybe Augusta, Savannah and Macon, isn't Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi all pretty much the same?
I remember when Atlanta and Birmingham were about the same size. When Atlanta got that big airport, seems like thats about the time Atlanta took off and left Birmingham behind. Things probably would have been a whole lot different if Birmingham had got the big airport.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
