2017 Urban areas of Georgia. (Savannah, Pooler: hotels, restaurants, versus)

[Mutiny77]

I consider percentage growth to truly tell the story of whether a place is "booming" or not because it's relative to the size of the city. In my book, Savannah is indeed booming with a 10.48% growth rate from 2010-2016 but Augusta is experiencing moderate/healthy growth with a 5.32% growth rate during the same period.

[cdw1084]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

I consider percentage growth to truly tell the story of whether a place is "booming" or not because it's relative to the size of the city. In my book, Savannah is indeed booming with a 10.48% growth rate from 2010-2016 but Augusta is experiencing moderate/healthy growth with a 5.32% growth rate during the same period.

My only problem with percentages is the fact that they generally benefit smaller areas. Augusta isn't going to grow 60,000 annually to counter the percentage but in term of raw numbers neither one of these areas are standing out against the other one. Percentage wise, for a smaller metro, Savannah is "booming" but I just don't see a percentage telling the whole story when comparing the actual numbers against Augusta.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by cdw1084

My only problem with percentages is the fact that they generally benefit smaller areas. Augusta isn't going to grow 60,000 annually to counter the percentage but in term of raw numbers neither one of these areas are standing out against the other one. Percentage wise, for a smaller metro, Savannah is "booming" but I just don't see a percentage telling the whole story when comparing the actual numbers against Augusta.

It's true that the larger a metro gets, the harder it is to sustain high growth rates but it's not exactly uncommon--especially in the Sunbelt, which has lots of large, rapidly growing metro areas. As is, Savannah is booming and considering its coastal location with other high-growth metros to the north and the south, it has all the ingredients to continue booming and even post higher growth rates.

[cdw1084]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

It's true that the larger a metro gets, the harder it is to sustain high growth rates but it's not exactly uncommon--especially in the Sunbelt, which has lots of large, rapidly growing metro areas. As is, Savannah is booming and considering its coastal location with other high-growth metros to the north and the south, it has all the ingredients to continue booming and even post higher growth rates.

That's true. I think if the 2020 census show a growth rate of 10% or higher then I'd definitely have say it's booming especially if the trend continues into the 2020's.

[Jandrew5]

Originally Posted by AUGnative

I've never understood why Beaufort County, SC is not included in Savanah's MSA.. I feel like Savannah gets shortchanged because of this. I mean their airport is even called the Savannah/Hilton Head airport.. why is Hilton Head and Bluffton not part of teh greater Savannag MSA. If it was included, Savannah would have the second largest MSA in the state after Atlanta

Agreed they should be one metro. They already share a media market, an airport, and have a lot of mingling. I was in HHI this week and we spent a day in Savannah. I really like it.

That said, not enough people commute between them. While HHI and Savannah are geographically close, it takes 40-45+ minutes to get from one another because theres no direct bridge. Takes even longer from Beaufort.

Plus, both cities could exist independently. If Savannah was wiped from the Earth tomorrow, HHI, Beaufort, and Bluffton wouldn't really flinch. Theyd just get their TV from Charleston.

If Jasper County was larger then theyd be one metro now, but Jasper, while "growing", is still too empty. Theyll join one day though.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by Jandrew5

Agreed they should be one metro. They already share a media market, an airport, and have a lot of mingling. I was in HHI this week and we spent a day in Savannah. I really like it.

That said, not enough people commute between them. While HHI and Savannah are geographically close, it takes 40-45+ minutes to get from one another because theres no direct bridge. Takes even longer from Beaufort.

Plus, both cities could exist independently. If Savannah was wiped from the Earth tomorrow, HHI, Beaufort, and Bluffton wouldn't really flinch. Theyd just get their TV from Charleston.

If Jasper County was larger then theyd be one metro now, but Jasper, while "growing", is still too empty. Theyll join one day though.

I think the answer is simpler than that: HH/Beaufort are full of retirees that aren't commuting anywhere for work.

[masonbauknight]

Originally Posted by Jandrew5

Agreed they should be one metro. They already share a media market, an airport, and have a lot of mingling. I was in HHI this week and we spent a day in Savannah. I really like it.

I wish they were in the same metro, but the US Office of Management and Budget puts the priority on commuting, not media markets or airports, to define MSAs. And the fact is that Savannahians and Hilton Headers live pretty separate lives. They have little to do with one another.

Originally Posted by cdw1084

Percentage wise, for a smaller metro, Savannah is "booming" but I just don't see a percentage telling the whole story when comparing the actual numbers against Augusta.

The "whole story" is that metro Augusta spans 17 counties -- 10 in Georgia and 7 in South Carolina. It has some larger cities/towns like Augusta, Martinez, Aiken, and N. Augusta, plus dynamic counties like Columbia GA and healthy urban clusters in SC. Yet since 2010, metro Savannah -- which includes only 3 counties in one state and just 2 towns of any size, Savannah and Pooler -- gained more new residents than all those 17 counties in metro Augusta. That's raw numbers, and hard for any metro to accomplish. Savannah is booming -- the only GA 2nd tier in the boom category. If the trend continues, metro Savannah will grow 18%-19% over 2010-2020, matching its growth rate in 2000-2010.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by masonbauknight

The "whole story" is that metro Augusta spans 17 counties -- 10 in Georgia and 7 in South Carolina.

Wait, what???? Where are you getting this from????

Augusta only has an MSA that consists of: Augusta-Richmond County, GA; Burke County, GA; Columbia County, GA; Lincoln County, GA; McDuffie County, GA; Aiken County, SC; and Edgefield County, SC.

That's a total of seven counties. It doesn't even make sense intuitively for metro Augusta to include 7 SC counties; not even Charlotte's MSA includes 7 SC counties (only 3, just like Augusta's). Greenville is the most populous MSA completely within SC and it only consists of four counties.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...2015/15-01.pdf (p. 25)

You must be thinking of the CSRA region which is just a marketing thing, not an actual core-based statistical area.

[Jandrew5]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

I think the answer is simpler than that: HH/Beaufort are full of retirees that aren't commuting anywhere for work.

You really underestimate Beaufort Co's working population. Retirees are part of the problem, but the main problem is: distance. Commuting from HHI to Savannah is not like commuting from Summerville to Charleston, or Lexington to Columbia, or Pooler to Savannah.

HHI to Savannah would take 45 minutes to 1 hour right now if you took the back way (SC 46). And that is in early May traffic, not summer traffic. From Beaufort would take 1 hour. Commuting from Beaufort Co. to Savannah would be a pain.

Savannah is good for day trips, but not for 5x a week of driving back and forth. You could take the back way - US17 to SC314 to SC46, but it's an uncomfortable route. Or you could take I95, but you'd have to get on I16 or GA21 first. Both of those would take forever and would be going the opposite direction.

There are enough working people that can commute between both - it is just not feasible. Like I said, Savannah or HHI could be nuked and the other wouldn't budge. HHI, Bluffton, and Beaufort provide enough jobs and amenities that working in Savannah isn't needed. And Savannah has no real reason to come work in Bluffton either.

Originally Posted by masonbauknight

I wish they were in the same metro, but the US Office of Management and Budget puts the priority on commuting, not media markets or airports, to define MSAs. And the fact is that Savannahians and Hilton Headers live pretty separate lives. They have little to do with one another.

That's...what I said.

[masonbauknight]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Wait, what???? Where are you getting this from????

Augusta only has an MSA that consists of: Augusta-Richmond County, GA; Burke County, GA; Columbia County, GA; Lincoln County, GA; McDuffie County, GA; Aiken County, SC; and Edgefield County, SC.


You must be thinking of the CSRA region which is just a marketing thing, not an actual core-based statistical area.

I got it from Wikipedia, which indeed lists the entire CSRA in the introduction to its "Augusta metro area" article (only 7 counties are broken down with stats though). Metro Augusta still has more than double the counties Savannah does, more towns of considerable size, and more employers than the Savannah MSA does. You could ascribe all of Savannah's growth to retirees, I guess, but I'd say that metro Augusta has far too many residents (and territory) to pull in fewer new residents than Savannah since 2010. I can see the "urban area" growth difference (Chatham County is more attractive, Richmond County less so), but can't understand the MSA difference at all. I can find no other similar example of such a disparity in any other southern state.