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View Poll Results: Favorite 3rd Tier city
Warner Robins 4 13.79%
Valdosta 3 10.34%
Rome 6 20.69%
Dalton 1 3.45%
Gainesville 3 10.34%
Albany 7 24.14%
La Grange 1 3.45%
Other 4 13.79%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-07-2017, 04:48 PM
 
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Finally, Athens is 2nd tier because it has 123,000 people in its city limits. The metro has 205,000 people. Macon, which has around 155,000 people and 229,000 in it's metro is in the 2nd tier so why wouldn't Athens? Also, both cities are consolidated cities.[/quote]

When did Athens Metro is raise over 200K secondly, if you visit Athens and did a head to head comparison between it and any of the other 2nd tier cities it wouldn't even compare and very noticeably smaller. Even if both cities Macon and Athens were not consolidated Macon still would have more than twice the population of Athens old city limits. Athens is not even larger than W.R. and you can tell it just from a visit. Just because it has college vibrate DT and UGA is not enough to make it 2nd tier. When you think of 2nd tier normally those cities serve as huge economic hubs and center of commerce not just for it metro but for a regional area. For instant Macon Metro may have a population of 230k+ and CSA of 400k+ but the city has a draw area pop of over 600k+ ppl in a 22 county area. Same goes for Augusta, Columbus, Savannah and Albany.. They all serve a hub to a regional area. I guarantee you Albany draws a population much larger than whats counted into its metro.
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Ca$hville via Atlanta
2,426 posts, read 2,445,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdw1084 View Post
Debating Marietta as a 2nd or 3rd tier city is totally different from the Macon-WR debate. Marietta is located within the Atlanta MSA and has been for ages. If Warner Robins and Macon combine into one metro, then I could see the debate but the census don't see WR as a part of Macon's MSA so until further notice, I will continue to call it a third tier city.

As for as Gainesville, you can technically make that argument for Athens and Rome to some degree since they all touch Atlanta's MSA.

Finally, Athens is 2nd tier because it has 123,000 people in its city limits. The metro has 205,000 people. Macon, which has around 155,000 people and 229,000 in it's metro is in the 2nd tier so why wouldn't Athens? Also, both cities are consolidated cities.
Warner Robins was apart of the Macon MSA but but due to commuting patterns, mainly Robins AFB, it's now grouped under the CSA... Robins AFB has a major effect and makes all the difference here.. Still more of a on paper thing here and a special case.. Side by side buddy.. Athens
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:00 PM
 
10,331 posts, read 11,314,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fountain-of-youth View Post
Albany has an advantage with fast food chains and retail. I think you can also factor in the size of the city as well. It's just more of a focal point of a region than the other cities listed.
I'm not contending that Albany does not have an advantage over the other third-tier cities on the list with fast food chains and retail.

There is no doubt or debate that Albany is a very important city to Southwest Georgia, a city that is even more important (and a more important cog in Georgia's economy) than many onlookers most likely might realize, especially in metro Atlanta and North Georgia.

Though, it is seems that it might be somewhat of a challenge to say that Albany has an advantage over the other third-tier cities when Albany appears to lack such major chain retailers as Aldi (which is found in Gainesville, Warner Robins and Rome) and Dick's Sporting Goods (which is found in Gainesville) that can be found in other third-tier cities.

Also, while I agree with your great point that Albany is a focal point of the Southwest Georgia region, the argument can be made that other third-tier Georgia cities like Dalton and (especially) Gainesville may be even larger focal points for their respective regions than Albany is for extreme Southwest Georgia as evidenced by the 2015 GDP figures for second and third-tier Georgia cities that Mutiny77 posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Here are the metropolitan GDPs for each as of 2015 (latest year available):

Gainesville: $8.569B
Athens: $8.142B
Warner Robins: $6.865B
Dalton: $5.983B
Albany: $5.142B
Valdosta: $4.850B
Rome: $3.645B
Brunswick: $3.616B

Source: https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/reg..._metro0916.pdf
Gainesville's position at the top of the metropolitan GDP figures (ahead even of second-tier metro Athens) is indicative of how the Gainesville area (and the "Hall County Mafia") has been able to rise to the top of the Georgia and Southeastern U.S. political scenes.

The large amount of industry (the poultry industry and otherwise) in the Gainesville area has enabled politicians from that area (like current Georgia Governor Nathan Deal, current Georgia Lt. Governor Casey Cagle and Georgia Legislature Administrative Floor Leader and Georgia state Senator Butch Miller) to fund their political campaigns at a level that might be much higher than politicians from many other parts of the state outside of metro Atlanta.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:58 PM
 
2,232 posts, read 2,106,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
I'm not contending that Albany does not have an advantage over the other third-tier cities on the list with fast food chains and retail.

There is no doubt or debate that Albany is a very important city to Southwest Georgia, a city that is even more important (and a more important cog in Georgia's economy) than many onlookers most likely might realize, especially in metro Atlanta and North Georgia.

Though, it is seems that it might be somewhat of a challenge to say that Albany has an advantage over the other third-tier cities when Albany appears to lack such major chain retailers as Aldi (which is found in Gainesville, Warner Robins and Rome) and Dick's Sporting Goods (which is found in Gainesville) that can be found in other third-tier cities.

Also, while I agree with your great point that Albany is a focal point of the Southwest Georgia region, the argument can be made that other third-tier Georgia cities like Dalton and (especially) Gainesville may be even larger focal points for their respective regions than Albany is for extreme Southwest Georgia as evidenced by the 2015 GDP figures for second and third-tier Georgia cities that Mutiny77 posted.



Gainesville's position at the top of the metropolitan GDP figures (ahead even of second-tier metro Athens) is indicative of how the Gainesville area (and the "Hall County Mafia") has been able to rise to the top of the Georgia and Southeastern U.S. political scenes.

The large amount of industry (the poultry industry and otherwise) in the Gainesville area has enabled politicians from that area (like current Georgia Governor Nathan Deal, current Georgia Lt. Governor Casey Cagle and Georgia Legislature Administrative Floor Leader and Georgia state Senator Butch Miller) to fund their political campaigns at a level that might be much higher than politicians from many other parts of the state outside of metro Atlanta.
Quote:
the argument can be made that other third-tier Georgia cities like Dalton and (especially) Gainesville may be even larger focal points for their respective regions than Albany is for extreme Southwest Georgia as evidenced by the 2015 GDP figures for second and third-tier Georgia cities that Mutiny77 posted.
I have to disagree. Gainesville in my opinion is nothing but Atlanta suburban sprawl.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:08 AM
Status: "6th" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Closer than you think!
2,831 posts, read 4,560,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtownMacon View Post
Finally, Athens is 2nd tier because it has 123,000 people in its city limits. The metro has 205,000 people. Macon, which has around 155,000 people and 229,000 in it's metro is in the 2nd tier so why wouldn't Athens? Also, both cities are consolidated cities.
When did Athens Metro is raise over 200K secondly, if you visit Athens and did a head to head comparison between it and any of the other 2nd tier cities it wouldn't even compare and very noticeably smaller. Even if both cities Macon and Athens were not consolidated Macon still would have more than twice the population of Athens old city limits. Athens is not even larger than W.R. and you can tell it just from a visit. Just because it has college vibrate DT and UGA is not enough to make it 2nd tier. When you think of 2nd tier normally those cities serve as huge economic hubs and center of commerce not just for it metro but for a regional area. For instant Macon Metro may have a population of 230k+ and CSA of 400k+ but the city has a draw area pop of over 600k+ ppl in a 22 county area. Same goes for Augusta, Columbus, Savannah and Albany.. They all serve a hub to a regional area. I guarantee you Albany draws a population much larger than whats counted into its metro.[/quote]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_Areas

Try checking the 2016 Census estimates, metro Athens is at 205k, metro Macon is at 229k.
Athens is just as much 2nd tier as Macon. Athens metro has also grown nearly 13,000 in 6 years while Macon's has lost over 3,000.

Can't compare the CSA's because Athens is included in Atlanta's CSA.

Furthermore, what do you mean Athens isn't larger than WR? The census says otherwise. I'm not sure what the problem is with Athens being 2nd tier but numbers point to Athens being in the same tier as Macon. Athens is the smallest 2nd tier city but it has entered the 2nd tier realm.

As for Albany, it may be more of a regional hub but that goes without saying. Athens is surrounded by more cities and is basically located between Atlanta and Augusta.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:15 AM
Status: "6th" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Closer than you think!
2,831 posts, read 4,560,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oobanks View Post
Warner Robins was apart of the Macon MSA but but due to commuting patterns, mainly Robins AFB, it's now grouped under the CSA... Robins AFB has a major effect and makes all the difference here.. Still more of a on paper thing here and a special case.. Side by side buddy.. Athens
WR's MSA is at 190,000 and +11,000 since 2010. Its MSA population isn't that far behind Macon's either. I hope the metros combine into one MSA again or WR's MSA will most likely pass Macon's sooner than later. A third tier city with a larger MSA than a 2nd tier city just wouldn't seem right.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:48 AM
 
10,331 posts, read 11,314,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fountain-of-youth View Post
I have to disagree. Gainesville in my opinion is nothing but Atlanta suburban sprawl.
Not at all, not at all. While the development patterns in and around much of the Gainesville area and surrounding Hall County may be heavily outer-suburban and exurban, Gainesville is much more than just "Atlanta suburban sprawl," my friend.

Even before the Gainesville area and surrounding Hall County basically began to be swallowed up by Atlanta's metropolitan and regional exurban and outer-suburban development patterns in the late 20th Century and early 21st Century, Gainesville was a city that was a center of industry, commerce and politics for the Northeast Georgia Mountains region and a city that was independent of the Atlanta metro area in the early-mid 20th Century.

Even before the city developed into the "Poultry Capital of the World," Gainesville was a center for the textile industry in North Georgia because of its location on the Southern Railroad line that connected Georgia with the major population centers of the Northeastern U.S.

Local entrepreneurs began the push to grow Gainesville into a poultry processing and industrial powerhouse shortly after World War II in the late 1940's but the city's industrial expansion hopes caught a major break when the city became the site of Atlanta's primary water source, Lake Lanier, in the 1950's.

Gainesville continued to catch some major breaks when the city was connected to Atlanta by superhighway (Interstate 985/Georgia 365) and when I-85 was constructed through Northeast Georgia (as a transcontinental Interstate superhighway link between the Gulf Coast and the Northeast) in the 1960's and 1970's.

While it is undeniable that Gainesville has benefitted immensely from being about only 55 miles from Atlanta (and being on the shores of Atlanta's primary water source in Lake Lanier and being virtually directly connected to Atlanta by Interstate superhighway), Gainesville is still an important city/metro in its own right as the largest city and metro area in the state north of metro Atlanta. Gainesville is also an important city/metro in its own right as the industrial, commercial, political and cultural center of the Northeast Georgia Mountains region.

Because of its very advantageous location in Northeast Georgia less than 55 miles northeast of Atlanta, Gainesville basically has the best of both worlds being an independent center of regional activity for Northeast Georgia that benefits from being in such relative very close proximity to Atlanta while serving as an important exurban gateway between a booming Atlanta metro area and the mostly rural Northeast Georgia Mountains region.

Gainesville's position atop the metropolitan GDP rankings for third-tier Georgia cities (and second-tier Athens) that Mutiny77 posted, as well as Gainesville's status as one of the most politically important city/metros (where both the state's sitting governor and Lt. governor hail from) illustrates the importance of Gainesville as a third-tier Georgia city/metro.

Not unlike with a Warner Robins, just because many people may not like the type of development pattern that predominates much of an area in and around a city/metro does not mean that city/metro is not a legitimate city (like a Warner Robins or Gainesville) and/or is not an a city/metro of great importance (like a Gainesville).

Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 09-08-2017 at 02:05 AM..
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:48 AM
 
837 posts, read 1,385,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fountain-of-youth View Post
I have to disagree. Gainesville in my opinion is nothing but Atlanta suburban sprawl.
I agree, Gainesville gained most of it growth benefits from Atlanta.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:38 AM
 
37,789 posts, read 41,472,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fountain-of-youth View Post
I have to disagree. Gainesville in my opinion is nothing but Atlanta suburban sprawl.
I strongly disagree; you could say that about Lawrenceville but not Gainesville. Now Gainesville's more recent growth may be due to Atlanta exurban sprawl, but Gainesville itself has a history and identity of its own, well apart from Atlanta. The Gainesville area is well noted for the poultry industry, producing star athletes, and, as has already been noted, producing influential state politicians. It has a nice, historic downtown as well which reminds me of Marietta's in a way, but more fleshed out. It is located on the shores of Lake Lanier and even boasts an influential evangelical megachurch, which is unusual given Gainesville's size.
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Old 09-09-2017, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,709 posts, read 21,775,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
That is a very interesting take on Albany. Please elaborate on why.
Well for one thing, Albany is its own TV Market (unlike all the other 3rd-tier cities) and is the media, retail and medical center of the entire SW Georgia region. In many ways, Albany acts as a 2nd-tier city and except for population it would otherwise be considered as such. In fact, historically I think Albany was thought to be on the level of the 2nd-tier cities. It's only been in recent decades as growth has gone to other parts of the state that Albany's status has lagged.
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