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Old 05-23-2020, 07:26 PM
 
1,329 posts, read 539,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Absolutely irrelevant. New Zealand is more diverse, yet they also beat the virus. Any nation, whether diverse or homogeneous, can follow these life-saving recommendations.



That is why their measures worked. They didn't have people who thought they knew better than the health experts and acted recklessly out in public. We have that here. That's why we are struggling and why we will continue to struggle for the foreseeable future.



That is a "when will you stop beating your wife?" fallacy. Nowhere did I deny that herd immunity is a thing. But for the third time, I am criticizing the ADVOCACY of "herd immunity" for the coronavirus. Am I really going to have to explain the difference to you?
I can advocate for wife beating. It doesn’t change what it is. You don’t need to explain anything to me because I have already explained it to you. Herd Immunity is a science. What you are trying to do is the fallacy. If you want to try and use fallacy and diversion logic about science so be it but you will be treated as someone who believes the earth is 6,000 years old and denies science.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:32 PM
 
1,329 posts, read 539,404 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Absolutely irrelevant. New Zealand is more diverse, yet they also beat the virus. Any nation, whether diverse or homogeneous, can follow these life-saving recommendations.



That is why their measures worked. They didn't have people who thought they knew better than the health experts and acted recklessly out in public. We have that here. That's why we are struggling and why we will continue to struggle for the foreseeable future.



That is a "when will you stop beating your wife?" fallacy. Nowhere did I deny that herd immunity is a thing. But for the third time, I am criticizing the ADVOCACY of "herd immunity" for the coronavirus. Am I really going to have to explain the difference to you?
When compared to the United States no New Zealand is not diverse. The countries with the most success fighting this virus are the most homogeneous and it isn’t by mistake. One message that is accepted and followed doesn’t go over well in other places. That is just the way it is. We as a nation do very few things better than South Korea. As much as I wish it wasn’t the case we can’t pretend it isn’t.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Georgia
5,845 posts, read 4,726,141 times
Reputation: 3540
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post
When compared to the United States no New Zealand is not diverse. The countries with the most success fighting this virus are the most homogeneous and it isn’t by mistake. One message that is accepted and followed doesn’t go over well in other places. That is just the way it is. We as a nation do very few things better than South Korea. As much as I wish it wasn’t the case we can’t pretend it isn’t.
New Zealand is 70% white.
The UK is 87% white.

Your repeating your latest failed point does not magically make it true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post
I can advocate for wife beating. It doesn’t change what it is. You don’t need to explain anything to me because I have already explained it to you. Herd Immunity is a science. What you are trying to do is the fallacy. If you want to try and use fallacy and diversion logic about science so be it but you will be treated as someone who believes the earth is 6,000 years old and denies science.
Fine, since you are all-in with your strawman argument, let me spell out the differences for you.

Herd immunity is a state of individuals who are susceptible to an infectious disease having a very low risk of getting that disease. Usually this comes from having most of the population vaccinated or recovered from the disease.

Advocates of herd immunity to the coronavirus claim that this is the best way to end the disease, to let as many people as possible get sick so that eventually, people who haven't gotten sick yet will have a very low likelihood of coming into contact with people who are. This would easily require over a hundred million Americans getting the coronavirus, which would translate into at least a million Americans dead, not counting the increased mortality rates from overrun hospitals.

Get it now? Herd immunity is a science, but those who advocate for herd immunity are pushing an ideology--a deadly ideology.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:43 PM
 
10,089 posts, read 5,130,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
New Zealand is 70% white.
The UK is 87% white.
I thought the comparison was between the US and NZ. In the US non-Hispanic whites make up around 61% of the population.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:49 PM
 
1,329 posts, read 539,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
I thought the comparison was between the US and NZ. In the US non-Hispanic whites make up around 61% of the population.
It was. He keeps trying to use diversion tactics to keep moving the goalposts as usual.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Georgia
5,845 posts, read 4,726,141 times
Reputation: 3540
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post
It was. He keeps trying to use diversion tactics to keep moving the goalposts as usual.
Not true. Here is what you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post
When compared to the United States no New Zealand is not diverse. The countries with the most success fighting this virus are the most homogeneous and it isn’t by mistake. One message that is accepted and followed doesn’t go over well in other places. That is just the way it is. We as a nation do very few things better than South Korea. As much as I wish it wasn’t the case we can’t pretend it isn’t.
I provided you with a clear example of a fairly diverse nation that beat the virus and a fairly homogeneous one that continues to struggle with it. So let's dispense with the false notion that homogeneity causes immunity.
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Old 05-23-2020, 07:59 PM
 
1,329 posts, read 539,404 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Not true. Here is what you said:



I provided you with a clear example of a fairly diverse nation that beat the virus and a fairly homogeneous one that continues to struggle with it. So let's dispense with the false notion that homogeneity causes immunity.
No you didn’t. You provided one country and think it cancels out all the facts and data we have from many other homogeneous countries. You also tried to call New Zealand ‘diverse’ and have now moved onto ‘fairly diverse’. What next? Semi fairly maybe diverse?
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Old 05-23-2020, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Georgia
5,845 posts, read 4,726,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post
No you didn’t. You provided one country and think it cancels out all the facts and data we have from many other homogeneous countries. You also tried to call New Zealand ‘diverse’ and have now moved onto ‘fairly diverse’. What next? Semi fairly maybe diverse?
Ron, you're getting us off-topic with your denials of the facts. The fact is, New Zealand is more diverse than the UK, yet the Kiwis have beaten back the virus while the Brits haven't. You were the one who falsely claimed that homogeneity causes immunity, and I clearly falsified that, no matter how much you refuse to admit it. So let's end this pointless diversion. Let's also make sure that we aren't calling for "herd immunity," which could cost a million Americans their lives.

Until we get a vaccine and get it to the masses, there is exactly one way to beat the coronavirus, and that is to socially distance. Health experts were right when they said it months ago and they are right now. Wear masks in public, avoided indoor crowds as much as possible, don't touch your face until you have thoroughly washed your hands, and so on. That is what we can do and what we must do.
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Old 05-24-2020, 08:20 AM
 
1,329 posts, read 539,404 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Ron, you're getting us off-topic with your denials of the facts. The fact is, New Zealand is more diverse than the UK, yet the Kiwis have beaten back the virus while the Brits haven't. You were the one who falsely claimed that homogeneity causes immunity, and I clearly falsified that, no matter how much you refuse to admit it. So let's end this pointless diversion. Let's also make sure that we aren't calling for "herd immunity," which could cost a million Americans their lives.

Until we get a vaccine and get it to the masses, there is exactly one way to beat the coronavirus, and that is to socially distance. Health experts were right when they said it months ago and they are right now. Wear masks in public, avoided indoor crowds as much as possible, don't touch your face until you have thoroughly washed your hands, and so on. That is what we can do and what we must do.
This was never posted by anyone. What was posted is Homogeneous societies have handled this virus much better than non homogeneous societies. That was the statement. You are also trying to deny science which I have very little patience for. It’s idiotic. Herd Immunity doesn’t mean to stop wearing a mask nor does it mean to not wash your hands or to start touching your face.
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Old 05-24-2020, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Georgia
5,845 posts, read 4,726,141 times
Reputation: 3540
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post
This was never posted by anyone.
Really? Are you suggesting that you did not write this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post
When compared to the United States no New Zealand is not diverse. The countries with the most success fighting this virus are the most homogeneous and it isn’t by mistake. One message that is accepted and followed doesn’t go over well in other places. That is just the way it is. We as a nation do very few things better than South Korea. As much as I wish it wasn’t the case we can’t pretend it isn’t.
"The countries with the most success fighting this virus are the most homogeneous and it isn’t by mistake."

Maybe you meant to phrase it some other way, Ron?

Quote:
What was posted is Homogeneous societies have handled this virus much better than non homogeneous societies. That was the statement.
Now that's an interesting claim, considering that I have already falsified it!

Quote:
You are also trying to deny science which I have very little patience for. It’s idiotic. Herd Immunity doesn’t mean to stop wearing a mask nor does it mean to not wash your hands or to start touching your face.
What herd immunity is and whether a vaccine-less herd immunity is a worthy goal are two separate questions, which you are choosing to conflate.
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