Concerns about High Accident Rates on I-85 Highway near Ho****on (law, safe)
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Technically, you're 'supposed' to drive within reason of the flow of traffic over the precedence of the speed limit. The DMV handbook actually says this too. Meaning, if you're in the third lane doing 60 and most traffic around you is doing 75, even though they are all doing 5 MPH over, you are technically creating the more dangerous situation.
Meaning yes, even if traffic is going over the posted speed limit, if it is determined that you can safely travel at or above the speed limit as to not impede the flowing traffic, you 'could' be citated for impeding them, and it does happen.
That doesn't necessarily state that I condone speeding, but the flow of traffic takes precedence over the speed limit, infact many speed limits state wide were raised because they were too low to accomodate for the general flow of traffic and caused alot of drivers to cause unsafe conditions by driving much slower than the flow of traffic.
If I am unable to drive the speed limit, I just stay to the far right lane.
I generally agree with your assertion that one should drive in accordance with the flow of traffic. However, what you need to keep in mind is the speed limit. If the speed limit is set at 70, it means you should not exceed that speed. This is the fundamental reason for setting the speed limit. e.g. If you use the excuse of flowing with the traffic and drive at 80 miles per hour, and you get caught by the police for speeding, they won't accept that excuse. You will end up receiving a ticket.
I generally agree with your assertion that one should drive in accordance with the flow of traffic. However, what you need to keep in mind is the speed limit. If the speed limit is set at 70, it means you should not exceed that speed. This is the fundamental reason for setting the speed limit. e.g. If you use the excuse of flowing with the traffic and drive at 80 miles per hour, and you get caught by the police for speeding, they won't accept that excuse. You will end up receiving a ticket.
Well not trying to be offensive but there is nothing to agree or disagree on the matter. I quoted the actual law and it may or may not contradict what you believe to be 'right' on the matter, but the speed limit alone is not evidence enough of endangered driving. The inverse is also true when doing 70 MPH in a heavy rain storm with no visibility.
Speed limits in many states are actually not set as hard limits but Primie Fascia as to what is reasonable for the limit of the roadway. Many speed limits are actually determined by monitoring the general flow of traffic of a particular stretch of highway and determine the reasonable safe flow of traffic by monitoring driving habits on a particular roadway. The reason the speed limit is set to 70 MPH on I-85 is because it is determined that the general flow of traffic on the highway safely travels within reason of that speed. If you want to do 60 that is okay but don't do it in the flow of traffic, move over to the right and let traffic go.
Aren't you afraid that an accident might happen? Are there people who intentionally avoid highways and use LOCAL roads instead? Are Georgia drivers reckless? I'm starting to feel scared to drive on highways too.
Based on your post history, I see that you moved to GA from CT, which is also where I'm from [Bridgeport area specifically]. This stretch of I-85 is nowhere near as dangerous, in terms of high number of accidents, as I-95 between New York and New Haven.
Yep. Driving in this part of the country (in the Southeastern U.S.) often can be an interesting experience for people who may not be most familiar with the area.
Motorists often drive well above posted speed limits in heavy traffic and the exploding amount of industry in the region (greater Atlanta metropolitan region, North Georgia and the I-85 anchored Georgia/South Carolina/North Carolina Piedmont corridor) generates an increasing amount of freight truck traffic on major roads.
I-85 in particular may at times see a lot of collisions because of the many vehicles that operate well in excess of posted speed limits and because of the very high and growing amount of truck traffic on an I-85 roadway that connects the Gulf Coast with the Northeastern U.S. by way of the fast-growing GA/SC/NC Piedmont region, including metro Atlanta.
People who live in an exurban area like Hoschton and have to commute to other parts of the greater Atlanta region sometimes might would prefer to avoid having to use the freeway but often may not have much of a choice but to use the freeway for daily commuting over longer distances.
To be fair I used to feel the same about drivers in the South but it's no different in the NE. I was on the Jersey Turnpike last November and the posted limit is 65. Everyone was doing 80+... ...I took I-95 from NYC to Boston and folks out there were flying too. Then there is Chicago (midwest) and that's a whole 'nother level of road carnage.
You want to know a state where drivers are reasonably and very surprisingly safe? California. I was expecting it to be chaos but they were actually very tempered and behaved drivers.
To be fair I used to feel the same about drivers in the South but it's no different in the NE. I was on the Jersey Turnpike last November and the posted limit is 65. Everyone was doing 80+... ...I took I-95 from NYC to Boston and folks out there were flying too. Then there is Chicago (midwest) and that's a whole 'nother level of road carnage.
You want to know a state where drivers are reasonably and very surprisingly safe? California. I was expecting it to be chaos but they were actually very tempered and behaved drivers.
Yep, which is why I am much more comfortable driving the freeways of SoCal than I am ours in Atlanta. Many of our drivers wouldn't like their fate with the CHP at all, and would find themselves broke - along with suspended licenses, in very short order.
Technically, you're 'supposed' to drive within reason of the flow of traffic over the precedence of the speed limit. The DMV handbook actually says this too. Meaning, if you're in the third lane doing 60 and most traffic around you is doing 75, even though they are all doing 5 MPH over, you are technically creating the more dangerous situation.
Meaning yes, even if traffic is going over the posted speed limit, if it is determined that you can safely travel at or above the speed limit as to not impede the flowing traffic, you 'could' be citated for impeding them, and it does happen.
That doesn't necessarily state that I condone speeding, but the flow of traffic takes precedence over the speed limit, infact many speed limits state wide were raised because they were too low to accomodate for the general flow of traffic and caused alot of drivers to cause unsafe conditions by driving much slower than the flow of traffic.
If I am unable to drive the speed limit, I just stay to the far right lane.
I don't think you understand the definition of the word "limit:"
"Limit: Final, Utmost, or furtherest boundary to the point of extent" per Alexa.
Well not trying to be offensive but there is nothing to agree or disagree on the matter. I quoted the actual law and it may or may not contradict what you believe to be 'right' on the matter, but the speed limit alone is not evidence enough of endangered driving. The inverse is also true when doing 70 MPH in a heavy rain storm with no visibility.
Speed limits in many states are actually not set as hard limits but Primie Fascia as to what is reasonable for the limit of the roadway. Many speed limits are actually determined by monitoring the general flow of traffic of a particular stretch of highway and determine the reasonable safe flow of traffic by monitoring driving habits on a particular roadway. The reason the speed limit is set to 70 MPH on I-85 is because it is determined that the general flow of traffic on the highway safely travels within reason of that speed. If you want to do 60 that is okay but don't do it in the flow of traffic, move over to the right and let traffic go.
I have never claimed in any of my previous posts that I drove at 60 miles per hour in the first lane (overtaking/overpassing lane). When I drive at 60 miles per hour, I always stay in the far-right lane (slow lane). By the way, here in Georgia roads, it's quite common to see people overtaking using not only the first lane but also the second or third lanes as they please. Occasionally, I understand when someone does that, but it surprises me that many people seem unaware that the first lane is designated for overtaking. It's astonishing to witness the risky and reckless maneuvers of some drivers who swiftly change lanes from the first to the second, third, or even fourth lanes and then speed back into the first lane.
... they were also found later and fined for obstructing the general flow of traffic. Why? because although they followed the speed limit, they broke another law:
code 40-6-40, section D
Quote:
No two vehicles shall impede the normal flow of traffic by traveling side by side at the same time while in adjacent lanes, provided that this Code section shall not be construed to prevent vehicles traveling side by side in adjacent lanes because of congested traffic conditions.
Notice that there is no clause in that law that gives them immunity for following the posted limit? It means that the 'general flow of traffic' takes precedence as to what the reasonable flow of traffic is for that roadway, regardless of the actual speed limit. Meaning if the limit is 55, and traffic is doing 70.. ..and you're out in the center and left lanes impeding them, you are at fault of obstructing the flow of traffic as that law does not in any way or form restrict itself to a speed limit. It simply states, if traffic is driving significantly faster than you, and you're impeding them, you are at fault. It does not cite or any way or form protect you because you were doing the legal speed limit. You are not called to 'speed' but you ARE called to move over and let them go as to not obstruct traffic. Noting, Obstructing Traffic and Speed Limits are altogether two different citations with no congruency in law.
No, I understand the term 'limit' quite well, but I am also fairly affluent with the law, and following one law does not automatically equate to immunity from another, and for obstructing traffic there is nothing in the law that prohibits you from receiving a citation for obstructing the flow of traffic, even IF the flow of traffic is exceeding the limit. In fact the law opposing the obstructing of traffic actually eludes to just the opposite:
O.C.G.A § 40-6-184
Quote:
No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation.
Notice that there is no clause there that makes an exception for following the posted speed limit? Know what that means? You are not legally protected even if you are following the posted limit.
A new law has amended Georgia Code Ann., § 40-6-184. Under the new law, you must move over even if the car behind you is going well beyond the speed limit. This new Georgia “Slow Poke” law, which is officially called House Bill 459, is meant to further improve traffic congestion and tailgating by freeing up the fast left lane for drivers moving faster. State Representative Bill Hitchens from Effingham County wrote the bill.
Under House Bill 459, slow drivers in the left lane on a four-lane Georgia highway, interstate, or expressway must move to the right lane when a faster car approaches them from behind. A slower driver who does not move out of the high-speed lane may be ticketed under this new law.
"This is just enforcing the manners your mother should have taught you," says the author of House Bill 459 and retired commander of the state's highway patrol, State Representative Bill Hitchens from Effingham County. Representative Hitchens explains, "if people are trying to go faster than you, move over and let them go. When slower drivers - even those doing the speed limit - clog up the road, it can cause conflicts.”
The reasoning is this. The speed 'limit' is not the only measurement of what is a reasonable and safe speed on the roadway. Meaning, if the flow of traffic is exceeding the limit, and you are impeding the flow of traffic, there are no laws preventing you from being citated for . If the limit is 55, and the flow of traffic is doing 70, and you decide to do 50.. ..you're impeding the flow of traffic, regardless of what the actual limit is, there are laws prohibiting this and they do not limit their enforcement at the speed 'limit'.
Drivers are prohibited from driving a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when a reduced speed is necessary for safe operation. On roads with two or more lanes, drivers cannot continue to operate a motor vehicle in the passing lane if that driver is being overtaken by a motor vehicle traveling at a higher rate of speed from behind.
Penalties include fines up to $1000 and/or 3 points on the driving record. When there are two or more lanes for traffic moving in the same direction, slower vehicles should use the right lane except when passing or making a left turn. Driving too slowly is dangerous because it impedes the regular flow of traffic. Minimum speed limits are posted on certain highways. If you are unable to drive at the minimum speed, you should seek an alternate route.
Once again, notice that there is a mention of a minimum speed but no mention of the speed 'limit'? They were fully aware of the speed limit when they wrote this, but did NOT restrict this law to only the speed 'limit' (and yes, the DMV Handbook is a legal document). Safe operation is typically determined by traffic and/or weather conditions. Speed limits are made to regulate the flow of traffic, but the obstructing the flow of traffic is an altogether different non-congruent offense than exceeding the speed limit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldensky
I have never claimed in any of my previous posts that I drove at 60 miles per hour in the first lane (overtaking/overpassing lane). When I drive at 60 miles per hour, I always stay in the far-right lane (slow lane). By the way, here in Georgia roads, it's quite common to see people overtaking using not only the first lane but also the second or third lanes as they please. Occasionally, I understand when someone does that, but it surprises me that many people seem unaware that the first lane is designated for overtaking. It's astonishing to witness the risky and reckless maneuvers of some drivers who swiftly change lanes from the first to the second, third, or even fourth lanes and then speed back into the first lane.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldensky
Thank you for the advice. There are really a lot of trucks on the road. It's a 6-lane road with three lanes in each direction, and even when I'm going relatively slow at 60 miles per hour in the third lane, there are many cars that come up behind me quickly and try to overtake me in the third lane. There are also many dangerous cars that zigzag between the second and third lanes, speeding recklessly. Even if I drive cautiously by myself, it's unlucky that another car might come and crash into me. However, if I only use local roads to get to my destination, it seems like it will take more than 20 minutes longer.
Alright, then please give me some tips for safe driving on I-85
I took it from this post, you mentioned 3rd lane and 60 MPH. Much of I-85's speed limit is 70 MPH throughout the state except the intown areas of Atlanta metro. If you're meaning ITP then I'd say you have a stronger point but I was thinking someplace like Gwinnett or S.Fulton (OTP)
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 06-15-2023 at 01:15 AM..
I generally agree with your assertion that one should drive in accordance with the flow of traffic. However, what you need to keep in mind is the speed limit. If the speed limit is set at 70, it means you should not exceed that speed. This is the fundamental reason for setting the speed limit. e.g. If you use the excuse of flowing with the traffic and drive at 80 miles per hour, and you get caught by the police for speeding, they won't accept that excuse. You will end up receiving a ticket.
I will re-iterate that my approach of this argument has nothing to do with disobeying the posted limit, but not creating an obstruction to the general flow of traffic regardless of what that posted limit is, I.E. - do not be in the center or left lanes doing 65 when everyone else around you is breaking the law by doing 80.. ..both parties are at fault.. ..one for obstructing traffic, the other for speeding. following one law does not grant immunity from another, the answer is move over to the right lane as to avoid creating an obstruction.
As for doing 80 MPH in the general flow of traffic, in Georgia you would be correct that an officer 'could' single you out and citate you as Georgia has Absolute Speed limits although this is heavily unlikely as most cops don't bat an eye until you exceed 80 as the revenue in such a ticket is not worth the added risk of pulling out into high speed traffic and risking some inattentive cell phone driver collide into you while you're ticketing a motorist. You would be better off moving over to the right if you were in fear of exceeding the posted limit, Obstructing Traffic is another crime regardless of the posted limit and you would be guilty of doing so even if you were driving the posted limit and traffic flow was driving significantly faster.
While unrelated, to give you an idea that the posted limit is 'not' concrete evidence of speeding, many states have what are called prima facie speed limits, meaning even if you are exceeding the posted speed limit, if it can be concluded that you were doing so maintain safe operation of the vehicle (I.E. the flow of traffic), even if you were exceeding the posted limit, the real 'limit' of the roadway would be determined by traffic conditions, not the sign... I.E. if the posted limit was 75 MPH, and the flow of traffic was doing 90 MPH, if you were to be pulled over for it, you 'could' technically win the case if you could prove that you were driving within reason of the surrounding conditions.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 06-15-2023 at 08:55 AM..
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