Georgia's largest cities as of 2008..interesting! (Atlanta, Macon: universities, shop, Wal-mart)

[Saintmarks]

I know that commuting patterns are a big criteria in making a county part of an MSA, even though that system seems flawed. My home county of Meriwether is now a part of the Atlanta MSA even though the closest part to Atlanta is almost 50 miles away and it is totally rural. I know more people in Meriwether going to LaGrange which has its own Micropolitan area and to Columbus for work than I know going to Atlanta. Of course my knowledge is anecdotal. I guess it is the number of people going into Coweta for work as opposed to all the way into Atlanta.

SouthGA, I don't know who decides the CSA statistics and on what basis. Seems to be a total arbitrary system. Musket, I agree with you totally about Savannah and Hilton Head. Makes as much if not more sense than Auburn and Columbus. Dalton makes more sense for Chattanooga than Athens, TN and equal sense as Cleveland, TN.

Aiken, SC as part of Augusta is by default as you have to include North Augusta, SC in Augusta's metro as it sits directly across the Savannah river from downtown Augusta and thus is closer to the center of Augusta than the majority of Augusta in its own city limits. As SC has very large counties and the census bureau does not divide counties in their counting of MSAs, it has no choice but to include all of Aiken County in the Augusta MSA.

I see you two are night owls like me and I'm in Central time zone.

[southgeorgia]

Originally Posted by lilmusket

You make some very good points Marks...
I am pretty sure that Dalton will be considered part of Chattanooga's MSA in the near future...

Dalton itself is the principal city of its own MSA.

Unless the criteria for inclusion into the chattanooga CSA are met, it won't be grouped there.

Proximity to another city has no bearing on its inclusion in an MSA or CSA. If it did, then every county bordering an MSA principal city would be included in that city's MSA.

It doesn't work like that. You can find what specific criteria must be met within the census website. I'll give you a hint; its all about commuting labor.

Originally Posted by lilmusket

For some reason Hilton Head and Beufort do not get counted into savannah's statistics.. even though Savannah's airport is even called the Savannah-Hilton Head airport..

Hilton Head is in the name because Hilton Head doesn't have its own major airport, and it attracts passengers into savannah instead of, say, columbia. almost half the passenger traffic coming into savannah is headed to Hilton Head.

Originally Posted by lilmusket

I mean if Aiken, SC is counted in Augusta's MSA and Auburn-Opelika is counted in Columbus', then naturally wouldn't Hilton Head be lumped in with Savannah's. If it was then I believe the Savannah CSA would surpass Augusta. But you are right about Chattanooga..

No, he's not right. It just doesn't work like that.

[southgeorgia]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

I see you two are night owls like me and I'm in Central time zone.

I'm not so much a night owl as I am an insomniac. I sleep about two hours a night and somehow stay wired. I don't see myself being able to keep that up much longer. Hopefully when the economy picks up I can get some sleep.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by southgeorgia

Dalton itself is the principal city of its own MSA.

Unless the criteria for inclusion into the chattanooga CSA are met, it won't be grouped there.

Proximity to another city has no bearing on its inclusion in an MSA or CSA. If it did, then every county bordering an MSA principal city would be included in that city's MSA.

It doesn't work like that. You can find what specific criteria must be met within the census website. I'll give you a hint; its all about commuting labor.

I know commuting patterns are considered in making a county part of a larger MSA. CSAs don't add other non metro counties, but are combinations of contiguous MSAs or micropolitan SAs (don't know how to abbreviate that last one).

CSAs do seem to be rather arbitrary you must admit.

[lilmusket]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

I know commuting patterns are considered in making a county part of a larger MSA. CSAs don't add other non metro counties, but are combinations of contiguous MSAs or micropolitan SAs (don't know how to abbreviate that last one).

CSAs do seem to be rather arbitrary you must admit.

I think the entire county-unite based system for quantifieying MSAs is extremely flawed... as counties can be VERY large... and maybe only one tiny portion of it is really connected to the primary city in question..but the entire county is included in the MSA.. I think it is more accurate to look at urbanized and suburbanized areas...you can do this by looking at individual census tracts and not just at counties by whole. For any area to be part of MSA it should have a certian minimum population density (rural areas should not be considered metropolitan).. and they should be contiguous to one another. Many maps already sort of do this.... not showing counties or citioes but rather showing urban/suburban metro areas as shaded areas... if the map companies can do this.. then certainly the cenus have give us a better clearer picyure of what really constitutes an MSA.

[southgeorgia]

Originally Posted by lilmusket

For any area to be part of MSA it should have a certian minimum population density (rural areas should not be considered metropolitan).. and they should be contiguous to one another. Many maps already sort of do this.... not showing counties or citioes but rather showing urban/suburban metro areas as shaded areas... if the map companies can do this.. then certainly the cenus have give us a better clearer picyure of what really constitutes an MSA.

population density is irrelevant. i believe you only say this because your idea of a truly "metropolitan" area is a city like atlanta or comparible.


the msa i live in, valdosta, includes three very rural counties. a county is added when 50% + of its work force commutes to the principal county of an msa.


msa's aren't created so the map companies can shade in certain areas a different color.

becoming an MSA or joining an existing one opens up a lot of federal funding to an area, and allows that area to compete for projects that wouldn't be built in a non-msa.

[Saintmarks]

I don't have a problem with MSA's being county based. It's just on boards like these when people grab a statistic to prove something about their city as superior to another when a closer look will show that there are discrepancies in the system that these finer points need to be brought out.

MSA's used to require a core city to have a population of 50,000. I see that has slipped as Valdosta, Gainesville, Dalton and others do not have a core population of 50,000. But that proves my point that one shouldn't compare one city to another as city limits and land area of a particular city often times do not reflect the true size of a city.

Case in point. Before Augusta merged with Richmond county, its core city population had shrunk below 50,000. Should it lose its status as a metro area (which in the past was a much more definite qualifier)? It is the second largest metro area in the state, so that wouldn't have made a lick of sense. Now it is the second largest city proper in the state population wise, but does that tell the true story? One must know that the city went from a population in the 40,000s to almost 200,000 not because of some phenomenal growth, but because the lines on the maps were moved. A closer look will show Augusta/Richmond's population as quite stagnant. Most of the growth is moving to Columbia county or across the state line.

Just one example of how statistics can help, but one most look at a more complete set of data to get a truer picture of an area. It amuses me, tho, the competitive posters here, especially the Augusta/Macon/Columubs guys that love to promote their own city (nothing wrong with that) but can't seem to leave it at that and must make constant digs at the others. Its like listening to Middle Schoolers argue.

[RandyarmonG]

so are we saying that each area in the state Atlanta, Columbus, Macon/Warner Robins, Augusta, Savannah are all hot spots in the state or did i leave someone out here. Besides every city in the US has to deal with crime some more than otheres I'd say it's worse outside the state of georgia than it is actually here. Can we agree on something in the statement.

[RandyarmonG]

Why is Fort Valley called a Micropolitan ?

[southgeorgia]

Originally Posted by RandyarmonG

Why is Fort Valley called a Micropolitan ?

Because it doesn't meet the population requirements of metropolitan status, but has an urban cluster.