High School Size - Is Smaller Better? (Talbotton: best schools, colleges)

[aboutmetro]

I've read research and opinion papers 'til I'm cross eyed. Many advocate for smaller schools for better education. My opinion is that smaller schools don't necessarily equal a better education. I've read about micro schools within larger schools that can accomplish the same results. Schools are expensive to build, maintain and operate. I say a larger high school can offer more to students than smaller high schools. Like bigger cities, larger schools can offer diverse opportunities in sports, arts and academia that smaller schools can't justify. How can you justify a strong health sciences curriculum if there are five students with interest. And bigger schools compete better in sports and other competitions, which fosters school pride and translates to more interest.

[Shagbark Hickory]

I went to two small private high schools. The smaller of the two (Graduating class ~70) I found very challenging and didn't do well there. Subsequently flunked out. Folks moved me to a school with "college prep" in the name (class size about double that of the first + very expensive tuition) and mysteriously made the honor roll each year I was there. That's strange when a person who's been a c/d student his whole life suddenly makes the honor roll. Needless to say this place did not prepare me for college and... you guessed it... I subsequently flunked out.

Smaller school size may translate to less students in the classroom. I think that's really all that matters, personally. Smaller schools definitely do not equal better education.

[Southern Soul Bro]

I pretty much agree with everything besides sports. High schools are placed in various classes based on their size. So you can have a small Class A school that is a powerhouse program year in and year out, and you can have a Class AAAA or AAAAA team that is lousy every year, since 90% of the time they are playing teams within their class anyway.

I agree that larger schools can offer more diverse opportunities in just about everything else though.

I can say with certainty that smaller schools do not necessarily mean better. I can just look at a larger school like Houston County which is much better than smaller ones like Taylor County and Central-Talbotton which are much smaller.

[sedimenjerry]

Some of the best schools in Georgia are the largest ones. Brookwood high school is currently the third largest school with over 3,500 students and yet it consistently ranks in the top tiers for atheltics, academics and other extracurricular activities.
It really depends mainly on the school and/or area.

[southgeorgia]

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Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

Some of the best schools in Georgia are the largest ones. Brookwood high school is currently the third largest school with over 3,500 students and yet it consistently ranks in the top tiers for atheltics, academics and other extracurricular activities.
It really depends mainly on the school and/or area.

Last time I saw brookwood I was sitting at the concrete palace for the '05 championship game. They got their rear-ends handed to them; 49-7. Just brutal.




As for school size; smaller is not better. Smaller is usually less money, less equipment, less options for the student. And I'm speaking only of public schools. There are a few exceptions like magnet schools, and some of the smaller schools in metro atlanta. You can still get a fine education, just maybe not as well rounded.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by southgeorgia

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As for school size; smaller is not better. Smaller is usually less money, less equipment, less options for the student. And I'm speaking only of public schools. There are a few exceptions like magnet schools, and some of the smaller schools in metro atlanta. You can still get a fine education, just maybe not as well rounded.

Agree 100%, although there are exceptions and one-off examples of good and bad.

I went to a high school with 5,100 students and got a great education. My daughter's high school here in Cobb has 3,200 students....good education.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by southgeorgia

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Last time I saw brookwood I was sitting at the concrete palace for the '05 championship game. They got their rear-ends handed to them; 49-7. Just brutal.

That was a sad day.
The football team just isn't what it used to be.
But they do excel in other sports like Baseball, Swim/Dive, and Hockey.
It's not just about football.

[hoffdano]

I have read some of the research and have found a general result that smaller high schools produce better performing students than larger high schools. Large high schools have a a more complicated social structure in the student body, have higher rates of violence. Smaller schools produce a closer relationship between the student and teachers and administrators. There is a lower probability of a student "invisible" to the school.

School districts tend to favor larger high schools because they are CHEAPER on a per student basis than smaller schools. There is an economy of scale. One 3000 student high school will not have double the administrative staff of two 1500 student high schools. The larger campus makes better (more economical) use of land, auditoriums, gymnasiums, and other physical facilities.

It is definitely true that a larger school can offer more programs and curriculum. They may have enough people to teach French or have a chess team.

So there are tradeoffs. I think a key point is "what is small?" If small is 1500 students then the campus probably has enough size to offer many programs including athletics. Yet there are only 400 or so per grade. A very small high school (like a 1A school in Texas) on the other hand can't offer many programs because there just aren't enough students to justify them.

An interesting choice to consider is that two 1500 student high schools can have two of just about everything. Two football teams. Two swim teams, etc. where the large school will just have one of each. Two smaller schools may actually have a higher participation level in some activities.

My personal preference as a parent of three kids - two in high school now - is for "smaller" (~1500 students) but not "small" schools. I would like the principal (etc.) to personally know my kids. I like the feeling of a campus that isn't the size of some colleges.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

I have read some of the research and have found a general result that smaller high schools produce better performing students than larger high schools. Large high schools have a a more complicated social structure in the student body, have higher rates of violence. Smaller schools produce a closer relationship between the student and teachers and administrators. There is a lower probability of a student "invisible" to the school.

I'd love to read this research because I couldn't disagree more. Sounds like more like it depends on where the school is located and who makes up the student body and parents. Your comment sounds very anecdotal.

My wife grew up in a town with 6,000 residents and went to a small town HS with 175 students in her senior class. I grew up in a big city and went to a school with 1200 students in my senior class. My school was one of the best in my state, and hers had all kinds of funding and other issues given the way education is financed in Massachusetts. She got no better education, that's for sure.

There are examples of good and bad but it really depends on specifics.

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by neil0311

I'd love to read this research because I couldn't disagree more. Sounds like more like it depends on where the school is located and who makes up the student body and parents. Your comment sounds very anecdotal.

My wife grew up in a town with 6,000 residents and went to a small town HS with 175 students in her senior class. I grew up in a big city and went to a school with 1200 students in my senior class. My school was one of the best in my state, and hers had all kinds of funding and other issues given the way education is financed in Massachusetts. She got no better education, that's for sure.

There are examples of good and bad but it really depends on specifics.

I will attempt to relocate the articles I read. But your wife's school was "very small." And you already listed things that may have been a bigger factor than size - funding - and the fact that you went to one of the best schools in the state. Quality studies are difficult to do - because variables such as you list must be recognized. Apples to apples comparisons are difficult.

Many kids get a great education from large high schools. I was one of almost 800 in my senior class - and consider my education sound.

I can say with some confidence that large schools are CHEAPER per student, not more expensive. That is the primary motivation for school districts to choose large campuses. I was part of several bond committees the last few years and the cost per pupil, cost per sq. ft., etc. is lower for large campuses.