Your thoughts on the Silver Line BRT (Detroit, Grand Rapids: 2013, neighborhoods)

[usroute10]

Hello,

I wanted to get Grand Rapidians' (sic) thoughts on the Silver Line BRT. There is not much press about it.

-Does it appear to have high ridership?

-Is it truly a rapid transit line, i.e., does it have features such as:
*its own lane that it doesn't share with other traffic
*pre-payment of fare before boarding the bus
*traffic signal pre-emption/prioritization
*transit stations spaced 0.5 to 1.0 miles apart
*is it truly rapid? Does it get to 1 end of the line to the other end a lot faster than a regular bus?

I'd also like to get your opinion on the future of rapid transit in Grand Rapids/West Michigan

-Is there a need or demand or groundswell for a streetcar or light rail system in that area?
-In your opinion, is a rapid transit system that connects Grand Rapids to its suburbs or airport necessary for the region to continue to prosper economically? Would not building rapid transit system stifle the economic expansion of the region?

There is a recent transplant to the Detroit area that posts on the Detroit Forum. He is from Salt Lake City. He says he enjoys living in the Detroit region but he says one of the biggest drawbacks to the region is the lack of rapid transit.

I looked up Salt Lake City and the stats on that city are eerily similar to Grand Rapids. It has a population of 191,000 people in the city and the metro area has 1 million people - very similar to Grand Rapids. That city has 3 light rail lines, one goes to the University of Utah, another goes to the airport.

Could you see in the future, Grand Rapids building a similar system, with a light rail line going from downtown Grand Rapids to the airport, or a line going to GVSU and on to Grand Haven? Or maybe just a short streetcar line that connects downtown with some of the adjacent vibrant neighborhoods, similar to what is being built in Detroit?

[magellan]

Originally Posted by usroute10

Hello,

I wanted to get Grand Rapidians' (sic) thoughts on the Silver Line BRT. There is not much press about it.

-Does it appear to have high ridership?

-Is it truly a rapid transit line, i.e., does it have features such as:
*it's own lane that it doesn't share with other traffic
*pre-payment of fare before boarding the bus
*traffic signal pre-emption/prioritization
*transit stations spaced 0.5 to 1.0 miles apart
*is it truly rapid? Does it get to 1 end of the line to the other end faster than regular traffic?

I'd also like to get your opinion on the future of rapid transit in Grand Rapids/West Michigan

-Is there a need or demand or groundswell for a streetcar or light rail system in that area?
-In your opinion, is a rapid transit system that connects Grand Rapids to its suburbs or airport necessary for the region to continue to prosper economically? Would not building rapid transit system stifle the economic expansion of the region?

There is a recent transplant to the Detroit area that posts on the Detroit Forum. He is from Salt Lake City. He says he enjoys living in the Detroit region but he says one of the biggest drawbacks to the region is the lack of rapid transit.

I looked up Salt Lake City and the stats on that city are eerily similar to Grand Rapids. It has a population of 191,000 people in the city and the metro area has 1 million people - very similar to Grand Rapids. That city has 3 light rail lines, one goes to the University of Utah, another goes to the airport.

Could you see in the future, Grand Rapids building a similar system, with a light rail line going from downtown Grand Rapids to the airport, or a line going to GVSU and on to Grand Haven? Or maybe just a short streetcar line that connects downtown with some of the adjacent vibrant neighborhoods, similar to what is being built in Detroit?

Much of the original light rail system in Salt Lake City was built for the Olympics. There's a lot of money thrown around by the IOC to get cities ready for the throngs of crowds. I just read an article though that only about 3% of the population of SLC uses transit to commute to work, since they're used as a peer city to GR a lot. I was surprised.

The Silver Line BRT is very much a true "bus rapid transit" system. It has designated lanes during rush hour, but they are open to regular traffic during non rush hour; level boarding stations were built; pre-paid fares; traffic light priority; everything you would expect with a BRT system funded by the FTA Small Starts Program. I think the total was $40 Million for about 9 miles.

Here's an article about it when it was under construction:

Grand Rapids' new multi-million-dollar economic boon? The Silver Line BRT construction begins

I think ridership is doing pretty well. I have mixed feelings about it. I'd like to see light rail but I wouldn't have picked the Silver Line corridor.

The Rapid was just awarded $57 Million to do the next BRT line between downtown and GVSU out in Allendale, called the Laker Line:

GVSU-to-downtown bus line picks up $57M from feds | 2016-02-10 | Grand Rapids Business Journal

There's been talk of a streetcar line downtown for at least a decade. Hard to swallow the $250 Million cost though when not much would be available from the Feds. That's a lot of coin to raise locally.

I don't think NOT having light rail will stifle growth. Indianapolis has no light rail and is quite a bit larger than GR. Minneapolis only has one light rail line and seems to be doing fine. I could name at least a dozen other Tier I cities with no sizable rapid transit system that are growing. It's definitely wanted but I don't think it's necessary (yet).

Which reminds me, how did Detroit pay for the M-1 light rail line?

[mjlo]

Originally Posted by usroute10

I looked up Salt Lake City and the stats on that city are eerily similar to Grand Rapids. It has a population of 191,000 people in the city and the metro area has 1 million people - very similar to Grand Rapids. That city has 3 light rail lines, one goes to the University of Utah, another goes to the airport.

The cities are more similar on paper than they are in the flesh. SLC has an urban population over 1million people which is more representative of it's metro area. Grand Rapids urban population is around 600k, it benefits from being a multi-nodal metro area which makes it look bigger on paper. GR metro is a doughnut where the population centers are on the fringe and the center is Ottawa County farm land. Where as most metro's population are centered in the middle of the metro and slowly fade out. When you're in Grand Rapids it does not have the feel of the 1million metro club it's lumped in with.

SLC is built out like a typical Mountain West metro noted by low density suburban sprawl. It has a stronger core than other MW cities though. It definitely feels like a bigger city especially when you consider it's CSA which is 2+ million people and endless development for almost 100 miles. It's transit options benefitted greatly from the 2002 winter olympics, which without it likely never would have built the lines. This is reflected in the ridership statistics.

When comparing urban areas GR is more in league with Toledo/Omaha/Des Moines. Urban area is a much better metric for comparing transit options as it's a better representation of the population that would use the system. In which case Grand Rapids stacks quite well in comparison, the city has been agressive and shown more success with it's transit options in comparison to its peers.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by mjlo

The cities are more similar on paper than they are in the flesh. SLC has an urban population over 1million people which is more representative of it's metro area. Grand Rapids urban population is around 600k, it benefits from being a multi-nodal metro area which makes it look bigger on paper. GR metro is a doughnut where the population centers are on the fringe and the center is Ottawa County farm land. Where as most metro's population are centered in the middle of the metro and slowly fade out. When you're in Grand Rapids it does not have the feel of the 1million metro club it's lumped in with.

SLC is built out like a typical Mountain West metro noted by low density suburban sprawl. It has a stronger core than other MW cities though. It definitely feels like a bigger city especially when you consider it's CSA which is 2+ million people and endless development for almost 100 miles. It's transit options benefitted greatly from the 2002 winter olympics, which without it likely never would have built the lines. This is reflected in the ridership statistics.

When comparing urban areas GR is more in league with Toledo/Omaha/Des Moines. Urban area is a much better metric for comparing transit options as it's a better representation of the population that would use the system. In which case Grand Rapids stacks quite well in comparison, the city has been agressive and shown more success with it's transit options in comparison to its peers.

Exactly. And SLC sits between two mountain ranges, and runs almost entirely North and South. It does make it easier to build transit systems in that kind of environment.

Transportation For America – Salt Lake City – Can Do profile