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Old 09-15-2016, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Land of the Free
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Grand Rapids seems to be in better shape than most fall line/river manufacturing cities. Its population is actually higher than it was 50 years ago, median income isn't in the tank, and downtown is less bombed out than Fall River, Lowell, Paterson, NJ etc.

Is it because furniture manufacturing didn't get outsourced as quickly and easily as textiles? Something in the Dutch Reformed heritage? Something in the water?

I don't know, but very curious about this.
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Old 09-16-2016, 06:21 AM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,702,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11 View Post
Grand Rapids seems to be in better shape than most fall line/river manufacturing cities. Its population is actually higher than it was 50 years ago, median income isn't in the tank, and downtown is less bombed out than Fall River, Lowell, Paterson, NJ etc.

Is it because furniture manufacturing didn't get outsourced as quickly and easily as textiles? Something in the Dutch Reformed heritage? Something in the water?

I don't know, but very curious about this.
More diverse manufacturing base and Amway.
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Old 09-16-2016, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Louisville
5,293 posts, read 6,056,775 times
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There are a couple different reasons in my opinion that Grand Rapids didn't fall off a cliff (it almost did). Here is my take, I'm sure there will be conflicting opinions.


1. Grand Rapids was never a big union strong hold. Originally when the union industries were thriving, Grand Rapids lagged noticeably behind it's peer cities in wages. You mention furniture manufacturing which the city is known for, the dirty little secret is that automotive (parts suppliers in particular) has been the largest chunk of GR manufacturing for at least the last 60 years. While the debate can be had about the moral ups and downs of this, during industry downturns the big tier 1's and 2's based in Kent and Ottawa Counties have always been able to bounce back quicker, and shed less of their work forces because they did not have the legacy overhead.


2. Three words: Devos, VanAndel, Meijer. There are quite a few people that consider these to be akin to curse words but love or hate them, the Grand Rapids area has more billionaires than many states. While most people scoff at the Devos's and VanAndel's for throwing their name on every building downtown. The things they did behind the scenes have been a big catalyst for the region transforming away from a manufacturing economy. The Devos's in particular are the driving force behind Grand Valley State investing a billion dollars in the neighborhoods around the core. They were also behind the strategy in the formation of Spectrum Health(several billion in investment over the last 20 years) which now has a campus and research cluster that rivals some major medical brand names.


In the 70's and early 80's downtown GR was nearly abandoned. The money, public/private partnerships, and strategic initiatives in the last 30 years, have a big part to do with why Grand Rapids is in a building boom, and why an educated population has been attracted to the area. Also yes, I do believe the strong Dutch heritage plays a part in the resiliency of the area. There are more than a few negative stereotypes that accompany it though.
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Old 09-16-2016, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
13,258 posts, read 22,828,258 times
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Add Peter Wege (former Steelcase head) and Peter Secchia to the list of big players in the great West Michigan potlach of the late 80s onward when a number of the founders of really large companies decided they'd rather give money to local causes they valued than have their heirs send so much straight to estate taxes and the price at the big boy or girl table was a willingness to underwrite a floor at a new museum or cancer treatment center.

Contributing factor- 'good bones'. Go back to the 1960s, and Heritage Hill was one of the first big triumphs of the historic preservation movement in the country. The central city buildings that were not demolished back then to make way for a new hyperspace bypass remained in good enough condition to be rehabbed and repurposed into some of the most desirable real estate in the region in the 21st century.
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Old 09-17-2016, 04:28 AM
 
8,573 posts, read 12,400,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11 View Post
Why Didn't Grand Rapids Decline?
It did. Big time. It may not have declined as much as some major cities, but Grand Rapids didn't escape the problems associated with urban sprawl and the resulting urban abandonment--much of it caused by government subsidies. At least Grand Rapids is better positioned than most to make a recovery...and it has been making progress.
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,848,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmichigan View Post
It did. Big time. It may not have declined as much as some major cities, but Grand Rapids didn't escape the problems associated with urban sprawl and the resulting urban abandonment--much of it caused by government subsidies. At least Grand Rapids is better positioned than most to make a recovery...and it has been making progress.
"Big time?" "Make a recovery?"

The CITY population peaked at 197,000 back in 2000, went down to as low as 187,000, and is now estimated to be back up around 195,000. That's not a "big time" decline, especially compared to other Great Lakes/midwestern cities, most of which are about half their peak populations (see Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Rochester, etc).

The metro area and Kent County, its largest county, has never declined though. Quite the contrary. Since 1970 the MSA went from around 600,000 to almost 1.05 Million today. There are very few peer cities that stack up like that.

As far as recovery, the last 5 years have seen unprecedented economic growth and Grand Rapids keeps landing in the top 10 fastest growing job markets in the country, adding more than 50,000 new jobs since 2011. Working in real estate and development is nuts right now, as we don't even have enough housing for the influx of people and people wanting to move up. Kent and Ottawa Counties are growing by about 10,000 people every year now. The two counties have pretty much merged into each other with growth along the border. The only other counties in Michigan that I can think of that are growing that fast are Livingston (about 2000 people per year) and Macomb (about 5000 - 7000 people per year)

As far as the why? mjlo has it right. It has to do with diversification of the economy. Furniture manufacturing has actually been pretty much globalized and its largest furniture company, Steelcase, is about a quarter the size it was 15 - 20 years ago. We're not REALLY furniture city anymore. Most of it went to North Carolina years ago or to China. Manufacturing is still a large chunk of the workforce (about 20%, mostly automotive suppliers) but the top employers in West Michigan are a pretty diverse group. The top 2 aren't even manufacturing.

Advancing The West Michigan Economy | The Right Place

In fact, so many people I know are being absorbed into Spectrum Health that I joke that we all work for Spectrum now.

I know people accuse some of us on here of being cheerleaders but there is hyperbole and then there are facts. Many people on the East Side of the State like to dismiss Grand Rapids "boomtown" status but most people over here don't care. We still love the East Side (for Tigers and Red Wings games).

If you get a chance, come visit JackinMichigan. I'll show you around and you'll be blown away by all the construction going on.

Last edited by magellan; 09-17-2016 at 07:39 AM..
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:44 AM
 
8,573 posts, read 12,400,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
"Big time?" "Make a recovery?"

The CITY population peaked at 197,000 back in 2000, went down to as low as 187,000, and is now estimated to be back up around 195,000. That's not a "big time" decline, especially compared to other Great Lakes/midwestern cities, most of which are about half their peak populations (see Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Rochester, etc).

The metro area and Kent County, its largest county, has never declined though. Quite the contrary. Since 1970 the MSA went from around 600,000 to almost 1.05 Million today. There are very few peer cities that stack up like that.

As far as recovery, the last 5 years have seen unprecedented economic growth and Grand Rapids keeps landing in the top 10 fastest growing job markets in the country, adding more than 50,000 new jobs since 2011. Working in real estate and development is nuts right now, as we don't even have enough housing for the influx of people and people wanting to move up.

As far as the why? mjlo has it right. It has to do with diversification of the economy. Furniture manufacturing has actually been pretty much globalized and its largest furniture company, Steelcase, is about a quarter the size it was 15 - 20 years ago. Manufacturing is still a large chunk of the workforce (about 20%) but the top employers in West Michigan are a pretty diverse group. The top 2 aren't even manufacturing.

Advancing The West Michigan Economy | The Right Place

I know people accuse some of us on here of being cheerleaders but there is hyperbole and then there are facts. Many people on the East Side of the State like to dismiss Grand Rapids "boomtown" status but most people over here don't care. We still love the East Side (for Tigers and Red Wings games).

If you get a chance, come visit JackinMichigan. I'll show you around and you'll be blown away by all the construction going on.
If you only base decline on population stats, then the Metro Detroit area hasn't declined at all. We've been pretty stable in population since the 70s, but the deterioration and "decline" has been pervasive--especially within the City of Detroit...and in other communities, too (mostly the inner suburbs).

I have family who live in the City of Grand Rapids and also in the GR suburbs, so I do visit on occasion. I agree that there has been a lot of construction lately which will hopefully lead to a more vibrant downtown area in particular. I just remember how desolate some of the downtown area seemed 15 - 20 years ago. There were so many empty buildings that it really reminded me of the empty buildings of downtown Detroit.

Get those dams out of the river and maybe I'll come up and kayak with ya. Make it "Grand Rapids" in more than name only.


EDIT: Sure, the City of Detroit has had a significant population loss--but Detroit's decline has been far greater than it's loss in population. Many areas really look like war zones. Population, however, is a poor measure of quality of life issues. Michigan was a much better place to live when we had half the population we have today...and Los Angeles was a much better metro area when it had a 10th of its present day population. Heck, planet Earth would be a much better place if we had far fewer people. Quantity is not a measure of quality.

Last edited by jackmichigan; 09-17-2016 at 07:55 AM..
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,848,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmichigan View Post
If you only base decline on population stats, then the Metro Detroit area hasn't declined at all. We've been pretty stable in population since the 70s, but the deterioration and "decline" has been pervasive--especially within the City of Detroit...and in other communities, too (mostly the inner suburbs).

I have family who live in the City of Grand Rapids and also in the GR suburbs, so I do visit on occasion. I agree that there has been a lot of construction lately which will hopefully lead to a more vibrant downtown area in particular. I just remember how desolate some of the downtown area seemed 15 - 20 years ago. There were so many empty buildings that it really reminded me of the empty buildings of downtown Detroit.

Get those dams out of the river and maybe I'll come up and kayak with ya. Make it "Grand Rapids" in more than name only.
Definitely things were different 20 years ago, but honestly the building vacancy in downtown GR was nowhere near Detroit's. I remember getting a tour of downtown Detroit just 6 or 7 years ago and the tour guide mentioned that almost 70% of the buildings in the downtown Detroit area were completely vacant, and basically abandoned. At its worst downtown GR never reached that point, maybe back in the 60's or 70's but not in the 2000's. I think there's only one basically "abandoned" building downtown now and it was recently purchased and will be renovated soon. Detroit has had a remarkable comeback but I know there's still a large chunk of buildings downtown that are empty, and all the empty land...

They're working on bringing back the rapids, just a lotttt of government red tape to go through.

FYI, the metro area of Detroit is about the same as it was in 1970:

https://www.recenter.tamu.edu/data/p...Dearborn%2C_MI

It hasn't nearly doubled in size like GR-Wyoming.

https://www.recenter.tamu.edu/data/p...-Wyoming%2C_MI
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Old 09-17-2016, 08:11 AM
 
8,573 posts, read 12,400,755 times
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Originally Posted by magellan View Post
FYI, the metro area of Detroit is about the same as it was in 1970:
The Metro Detroit area is much worse than it was in 1970. The population may be about the same, but it's spread out over a much greater area. Urban sprawl has been devastating to both the countryside and to urban communities. We've built too much infrastructure that we can't afford to maintain (even though property taxes have been driven up substantially). Urban sprawl is a primary reason why we have such poor roads down here--we've built too damn many of them.
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Old 09-17-2016, 10:27 AM
 
14,020 posts, read 15,001,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11 View Post
Grand Rapids seems to be in better shape than most fall line/river manufacturing cities. Its population is actually higher than it was 50 years ago, median income isn't in the tank, and downtown is less bombed out than Fall River, Lowell, Paterson, NJ etc.

Is it because furniture manufacturing didn't get outsourced as quickly and easily as textiles? Something in the Dutch Reformed heritage? Something in the water?

I don't know, but very curious about this.
Grand Rapids is more like Rochester, NY or Springfield, MA then like Lowell or Fall River.
Also if you think Lowell is Bombed out, have you been there since 1991?
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