Grand Rapids Economy and Job Market -- Bucking the State Trend? (Holland: live, moving to)

[ElphinKnight]

GVSU is a great school. I only realized what they were doing out there about 5 years ago, myself. The campus they've built is gorgeous and the school seems to be getting a pretty solid reputation. If I were staying in Michigan (and not fleeing like everyone else), I would move to Grand Rapids, hands-down; even though I'm a left-leaning moderate that thinks Amway is the biggest scam in history. I guess if there are enough suckers out there willing to send their money to GR to build infrastructure, then good for GR. Same idea works for Las Vegas.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by ElphinKnight

GVSU is a great school. I only realized what they were doing out there about 5 years ago, myself. The campus they've built is gorgeous and the school seems to be getting a pretty solid reputation. If I were staying in Michigan (and not fleeing like everyone else), I would move to Grand Rapids, hands-down; even though I'm a left-leaning moderate that thinks Amway is the biggest scam in history. I guess if there are enough suckers out there willing to send their money to GR to build infrastructure, then good for GR. Same idea works for Las Vegas.

Yeah, Vegas is one of the fastest growing cities in the country. Too bad it's all a sham.

I'm personally not a fan of Amway distributors, but Alticor (Amway's new parent company) posted sales gains in 45 of 57 markets (countries) where they operate in 2006, as well as getting their license to now sell in China last year. They're now up to $6.3 Billion and the #27 privately-owned companies in the country. I think they're the 6th largest employer in the metro area, and the 4000 or so people at the HQ in Ada do everything for the entire global operations, including accounting, finance, marketing, HR, customer service, purchasing, R&D, product development, as well as a pretty large manufacturing operation. And their tech division Quixtar is growing quite rapidly from what I hear.

A lot of good paying jobs.

It's like Charlotte not being all about NASCAR, Nashville not being all about country music and Pittsburgh not being all about steel. Cities evolve.

[ElphinKnight]

Alticor is just a blanket name for their group of pyramid schemes. Quixtar is just an Internet-enabled pyramid scheme. Enron had a lot of hard-working employees too; it doesn't make the company legitimate. Amway/Quixtar/Alticor take money from suckers; that's the connection to Vegas. With two good examples right there, you can clearly do very well taking money from suckers.

I know GR isn't all-Amway, which is why I say I would move there despite the influence the company has there. You don't have to agree with me about Amway, but I have degrees and a background in marketing and business, and I absolutely see the company as a scam.

[Wabbit]

If it's a scam, as you say, why aren't they in jail?
Why? Because the FTC put them through five years of litigation and Amway came out on top.
I've never been a part of Amway nor would I be, in fact, I would run from anyone who approach me with it.
I also have no doubt Amway created the Alticor umbrella to hide/distance themselves from the past but Alticor is not just a bunch of pyramid schemes.
The Devos/Van Andel families have always been charitable to the extreme and are funding medical research that could benefit millions in the future.
You may not like the fact that your Aunt Jen couldn't sell all her salve, but the truth is a lot of people, beyond its creators, have made a lot of money selling Amway. It's no different than anything else in life that calls on people to take a little personal responsibility for the decisions they make.
You dont have to lay down that bet, light up that cigarette, super size those fries or get involved in Amway. I don't, don't, don't and didn't.

[ElphinKnight]

Amway had the money to skirt the laws and they did, in fact, get their hand slapped anyway. Research has shown that the percentage of those who have earned a net profit from Amway to be about .01%. That means that of 1000 "distributors", one (1) will make money - at all. Remember, $800 of revenue means nothing if you have $1000 of expenses to get it; you came out $200 in the hole. For reference, the odds of profiting from a single spin of the roulette wheel in Vegas is 286 times greater than making money with Amway/Quixtar. Sorry, Amway/Quixtar is a scam. The data backs me up. I'm not changing my mind. I don't care that they're putting their money into legitimate businesses. The Mafia rolls their money into legitimate businesses too.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by ElphinKnight

Amway had the money to skirt the laws and they did, in fact, get their hand slapped anyway. Research has shown that the percentage of those who have earned a net profit from Amway to be about .01%. That means that of 1000 "distributors", one (1) will make money - at all. Remember, $800 of revenue means nothing if you have $1000 of expenses to get it; you came out $200 in the hole. For reference, the odds of profiting from a single spin of the roulette wheel in Vegas is 286 times greater than making money with Amway/Quixtar. Sorry, Amway/Quixtar is a scam. The data backs me up. I'm not changing my mind. I don't care that they're putting their money into legitimate businesses. The Mafia rolls their money into legitimate businesses too.

Oh come on now. To equate Amway with the mafia and Enron is laughable. Enron and mafiasos break the law, Amway does not. I wouldn't even consider what they do unethical, much like I wouldn't consider a casino unethical. Obnoxious and pushy, yes some of them are, but really I've only been approached by one person in my 13 years here to join anything like Amway. My wife gets jumped more often by Mary Kay people at Target, it's not much different. As Wabbit said, if you don't like it, don't do it. No one forced any distributor to spend one dime. And your stats about making a profit are just plain wrong. A lot of even low level distributors make money (just not very much or enough to live on), but enough to supplement their income. Like starting any small business, most fail, period. I know I know, you're going to post all kinds of websites that back up your claims that Amway is Scamway. Whatever.

By the way, I didn't vote for Devos either in case you're wondering.

[Wabbit]

As someone who has lived in Dallas/Ft. Worth and Grand Rapids I can tell that the Amway 'presence' in Grand Rapids is non-existant compared to the Mary Kay presence in Dallas. Like Magellan, I have never In five years been approached by an Amway sales person or even seen one. (Not that they walk around in Burger King uniforms or anything.)
By the way, do they even sell Amway products anymore?
The point is, the DeVos/VanAndel crowd have put their money where their mouth(s) are and given this city a launching pad to move forward.
Twenty five years ago Grand Rapids was at a Flint-like tipping point and instead of taking the money and dumping it solely into places like Florida they gambled on a very shoddy Grand Rapids and its beginning to pay off, for everyone.
I can't remember the last time the Mafia built a state of the art cancer facility or children's hospital but I'm sure you'll refresh my memory.

[ElphinKnight]

The Mafia took illegitimate money and turned it into legitimate businesses. Amway did the same. That's the connection. Many communities benefitted from this Mafia investment, but it doesn't change the way the money was come by. I won't change my mind about Amway/Quixtar, and I know you won't either, so I suggest we end the discussion before it gets unecessarily ugly.

[magellan]

On that note, and since Grand Rapids isn't Amway, here is another article out today about 4 companies expanding (one was already mentioned in my previous post):


Area manufacturers get economic boost
Friday, March 30, 2007
By Rick Wilson
The Grand Rapids Press

Four West Michigan manufacturers will share in $20.1 million from the state's Private Activity Bond Program, Michigan Economic Development Corp. announced Thursday.

Surefil LLC and PureFlex Inc., both of Kentwood, Metal Flow Corp., of Holland, and Plascore Inc., of Zeeland, will get a combined $20.1 million in allocations, allowing them to borrow money at favorable interest rates.

"This obviously means these companies are expanding and, as a result, likely creating jobs, which is always good news," said Sue Jackson, business development manager for the Right Place Inc., a Grand Rapids-based economic development firm.

The cluster of West Michigan firms receiving benefits reflects the better economic climate on this side of the state, said Michael Shore, MEDC spokesman. The Private Activity Bond Program is not tied to job creation, he said.

"The economy is a little better over there," Shore said. "You've got businesses that are looking to expand."

http://www.mlive.com/business/grpres...490.xml&coll=6



I think Plascore is the only one that is predominantly automotive based.

Here's another one on the topic that Wabbit raised about sustainability efforts in GR:

http://www.mibiz.com/absolutenm/templates/inthenewstemplate.asp?articleid=11345&zoneid=25 (broken link)

Pretty cool.

[magellan]

Grand Rapids area medical investment: $1 Billion
- Kalamazoo Gazette

GRAND RAPIDS -- From the fifth floor of the Towers Medical Building on Michigan Street NE, Joe Hooker believes he can see the future.

To the east, he watches ironworkers assembling the skeleton of Spectrum Health's new Lemmen-Holton Cancer Pavilion, and to the west, the newly poured concrete for the city's largest parking garage, soon to be topped by Michigan State University's medical school and a medical office building.

Throughout the area, the amount of health-related construction under way is unprecedented: nearly $1 billion.

A year from now, the building where Hooker has his temporary office will come down, making way for another medical tower. Across Michigan Street NE, Spectrum soon will build the $250 million Helen DeVos Children's Hospital, and the Van Andel Institute will start construction for a $165 million addition, more than doubling its lab space.

A few blocks south, Saint Mary's Health Care is building its $60 million Hauenstein Center and planning a complete makeover of its neighborhood.

In Wyoming, Metro Health will open its $150 million hospital this fall, just across the South Beltline freeway from Saint Mary Health Care's new southwest campus and two miles down the road from Spectrum's new outpatient center.

http://www.mlive.com/business/kzgaze...960.xml&coll=7

The Lemmen-Holton Cancer Center was named after two long-time employees of Meijer, of which Fred Meijer was the largest donor for the center.